Why is offering meritorious?

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Hazel
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Why is offering meritorious?

Post by Hazel »

Why does making offerings to the Buddha/gurus/etc. generate merit?
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Queequeg
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by Queequeg »

Not sure if this applies to TB...

It's a practice of Dana Paramita. Helps with loosening attachments to stuff. Cultivates an attitude of reverence and gratitude by doing things that are expressions of reverence and gratitude. Often, the gifts are consumed or used by the Sangha, so is a material support for the jewel that preserves the other two. Etc.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by Malcolm »

Hazel wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 3:18 pm Why does making offerings to the Buddha/gurus/etc. generate merit?
Because the object is superior. In other words, offerings to untainted objects produces more merit than offerings to tainted objects.
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Hazel
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by Hazel »

Queequeg wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:13 pm Not sure if this applies to TB...

It's a practice of Dana Paramita. Helps with loosening attachments to stuff. Cultivates an attitude of reverence and gratitude by doing things that are expressions of reverence and gratitude. Often, the gifts are consumed or used by the Sangha, so is a material support for the jewel that preserves the other two. Etc.
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. I was thinking more the immaterial stuff, like light/water offerings or mentally offering things. The first part of what you said though still applies and is helpful!
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

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Malcolm wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:27 pm
Hazel wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 3:18 pm Why does making offerings to the Buddha/gurus/etc. generate merit?
Because the object is superior. In other words, offerings to untainted objects produces more merit than offerings to tainted objects.
But why is the offering meritorious in the first place? Independent of tainted/untained.
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by heart »

Hazel wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:28 pm
Malcolm wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:27 pm
Hazel wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 3:18 pm Why does making offerings to the Buddha/gurus/etc. generate merit?
Because the object is superior. In other words, offerings to untainted objects produces more merit than offerings to tainted objects.
But why is the offering meritorious in the first place? Independent of tainted/untained.
Offering is an expression of generosity, which is meritorious.

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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by Malcolm »

Hazel wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:28 pm
Malcolm wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:27 pm
Hazel wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 3:18 pm Why does making offerings to the Buddha/gurus/etc. generate merit?
Because the object is superior. In other words, offerings to untainted objects produces more merit than offerings to tainted objects.
But why is the offering meritorious in the first place? Independent of tainted/untained.
Because an offering is motivated by a positive mind. "Offerings" which lack such motivation are actually demeritorious.
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Thoughts are not just passing things. Every thought is something you actually practice, even if it’s just for a few seconds.

Anything you practice accumulates as a quality. For example, if you practice playing the piano for a few minutes a day, it will add up, not just in terms of time spent, but in your improvement in playing.

As mentioned, making offerings is a practice of generosity. Doing this every day will develop within you a general attitude of generosity and eventually the perfection of generosity, not to mention that beginning each day with a positive action such as generosity is a good way to start off your day, so that in itself will have a positive effect because in developing that mind, it may stop you from engaging in other negative actions later.

One great lesson I learned was when a repair handyman was working at our house and noticed by Buddhist shrine. He said t me, “I know a Vietnamese fellow. Every day he feeds his Buddha a plate of food. What do you feed your Buddha?”
That question totally knocked me off guard!

The reason why making offerings to the Buddha or the Three Jewels is particularly beneficial is that these are reflected as the true nature of your own mind. Most of the time we make offerings to those things which merely perpetuate our samsaric existence. We eat food, we offer our bodies to sensory pursuits, and these things are all find on their own, of course. Sex is fine. But we aren’t getting anywhere. We aren’t “feeding our Buddha”
You might say.

The offerings are symbolic. I have even heard it suggested that as the material offerings (water, incense, etc) lack any true substance, they are imaginary, and that what we imagine or experience mentality are the real offerings.
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

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PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:08 pm Thoughts are not just passing things. Every thought is something you actually practice, even if it’s just for a few seconds.

Anything you practice accumulates as a quality. For example, if you practice playing the piano for a few minutes a day, it will add up, not just in terms of time spent, but in your improvement in playing.

As mentioned, making offerings is a practice of generosity. Doing this every day will develop within you a general attitude of generosity and eventually the perfection of generosity, not to mention that beginning each day with a positive action such as generosity is a good way to start off your day, so that in itself will have a positive effect because in developing that mind, it may stop you from engaging in other negative actions later.

One great lesson I learned was when a repair handyman was working at our house and noticed by Buddhist shrine. He said t me, “I know a Vietnamese fellow. Every day he feeds his Buddha a plate of food. What do you feed your Buddha?”
That question totally knocked me off guard!

The reason why making offerings to the Buddha or the Three Jewels is particularly beneficial is that these are reflected as the true nature of your own mind. Most of the time we make offerings to those things which merely perpetuate our samsaric existence. We eat food, we offer our bodies to sensory pursuits, and these things are all find on their own, of course. Sex is fine. But we aren’t getting anywhere. We aren’t “feeding our Buddha”
You might say.

The offerings are symbolic. I have even heard it suggested that as the material offerings (water, incense, etc) lack any true substance, they are imaginary, and that what we imagine or experience mentality are the real offerings.
Wow, that's a great story and enlightening response! Thank you. I think it's all coming together. I will think on it a bit more.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

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cyril
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by cyril »

Hazel wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:27 pm I was thinking more the immaterial stuff, like light/water offerings or mentally offering things. The first part of what you said though still applies and is helpful!

Offerings are dana. In the Buddha’s formulaic triad ”dana, sila, bhavana” for collecting punna, dana comes first.
Now, the extent of the merit collected depends on your intention, the recipient of the offerings, the nature of the offerings and your mental attitude following the act of offerings. Or so it is explained in the Abhidharmakosa.
To get the biggest bang for the buck, your intention must be pure, devoid of any self-interest; hence, we offer water, light, incense and so on with the motivation of bodhicitta.
Then, we make offerings to the Triple Jewels because the Triple Jewels are the supreme field of merit.
Regarding the nature of the things being offered, things like water, light, flowers and so on, usually cost next to nothing. Hence, it is unlikely they would be tainted, like say, you offer stolen water or something. And for the same reason, your mental state following the offerings will likely stay positive. You will probably never regret having made such offerings like damn, I should have used that water for a better purpose. Regret about an intentional act weakens the karma vipaka and so it is important to never regret a virtuous action but rejoice in having done it.
So if you look at it from this angle, it is easy to see that water bowls offerings, light offerings and so on are a method to accumulate great merit almost effortlessly.
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by Danny »

Seems something Faustian about the whole merit thing.
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Danny wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 10:39 pm Seems something Faustian about the whole merit thing.
Faust made a trade with people to take their souls in exchange for something that they didn’t have but wanted desperately.

Buddhas don’t need souls or anything else from people. And what you are getting is what you already have but just don’t realize yet.
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by Danny »

In terms of the underpinnings...

Psychodynamic therapy uses the idea of a Faustian bargain to explain defence mechanisms, usually rooted in childhood, that sacrifice elements of the self in favor of some form of psychical survival. For the neurotic, abandoning one's genuine feeling self in favour of a false self more amenable to caretakers may offer a viable form of life, but at the expense of one's true emotions and affects.[20] For the psychotic, a Faustian bargain with an omnipotent self can offer the imaginary refuge of a psychic retreat at the price of living in unreality.[21]
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by Danny »

I don’t know .. just feels something.
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by Hazel »

Danny wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 10:46 pm In terms of the underpinnings...

Psychodynamic therapy uses the idea of a Faustian bargain to explain defence mechanisms, usually rooted in childhood, that sacrifice elements of the self in favor of some form of psychical survival. For the neurotic, abandoning one's genuine feeling self in favour of a false self more amenable to caretakers may offer a viable form of life, but at the expense of one's true emotions and affects.[20] For the psychotic, a Faustian bargain with an omnipotent self can offer the imaginary refuge of a psychic retreat at the price of living in unreality.[21]
So is your point here that merit/offerings is "make believe" to feel better/safer?
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by cyril »

Danny wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 10:39 pm Seems something Faustian about the whole merit thing.
Angling for merit is precisely what robs the power of any kind of dana.
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
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Re: Why is offering meritorious?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

cyril wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:04 pm
Danny wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 10:39 pm Seems something Faustian about the whole merit thing.
Angling for merit is precisely what robs the power of any kind of dana.
The best dana is generosity without even giving any thought to it.
My local sangha had issues come up when people complained about having to ... no...about being asked to pay a suggested fee for teachings by visiting lamas. Even in general, getting people to make a monthly contribution was hard.
So, they got little coin banks, like little donation boxes. Everybody would get one and each day when they did their morning offerings at home, to put 25¢ into the donation box, kept near the shrine. Since people “didn’t think twice” about putting a quarter into the box each day, there was neither attachment nor any resentment. The center collected the full boxes each year and it did bring a lot of needed cash to the temple.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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