Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

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karmanyingpo
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by karmanyingpo »

Danny wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:15 am
Nicholas2727 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:08 am
Danny wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:59 pm
Then smith is saying ...

So what .. your circumstances, you deal with it.
You figure it out..
Nothing to do with vajrayana
Malcolm's exact statement was "Vajrayana and Veganism are mutually exclusive." All I asked was for him to clarify if he was referring to this statement specifically for a damaru, which we both already know does not exist, or if he meant that Vajrayana and Veganism are truly mutually exclusive like his statement says. I don't know why you are getting worked up from this, maybe we should just wait and have Malcolm answer.

Metta

Bro I’m not worked up. That imputing something that is not there. Again that’s a “u” issue and not mine.
Trying to insert sutra into tantra won’t help you understand experience “tantra”.

Bringing wokeness to the tantra path is a huge obstacle.
It’s that old and ceritified, by lineage Masters.

Get over it.
I have noticed more than once (in my thread about lung as well as here) that you can come off rather unpleasant... Just saying "that's a u issue and not mine" is not very helpful to self or other. Pure perception or emptitness as an antitote is for us to use with ourselves, not something we tell others to do just so we can feel unhindered and act however we want... Conduct as fine as tsampa and view as vast as the sky....... Actions of speech do effect other people..... Even on the internet... Not saying someone is going to fall over and die because of someone bein mean on the internet, but it is still good to consider the human on the other side of the screen with compassion


KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
Danny
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Danny »

That’s great - really got a good laugh. :P
I did read your “feelings”
Truly doesn’t mean F all to me.

Nothing.

You wanna project your “vegan” feelings.

That’s cool.

So what?

Means f all to me.
Danny
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Danny »

Lollipop reward for your goodness🐽

Understanding dharma is brutal at cutting through BS
Norwegian
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Norwegian »

karmanyingpo wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:31 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:44 pm
Cinnabar wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:37 pm

I never said there was a vegan damaru.

My damaru certainly isn’t vegan.

And no. You didn’t answer my sincere question. You were quite oblique.

“People can do what they want” can be taken in myriad ways.
I did answer it. You just didn't like the answer.
If we rephrase the question to, can one practice chod to positive effect with a damaru that is made non traditionally, with only vegan materials, what would the answer be? (and then to expand, to what extant can one practice chod and accomplish the practice truly with such a damaru?)

Just wondering too. I am not a vegan nor am I needing to travel to a strict custom country any time soon.


KN
But it's not a damaru. A damaru is made out of skulls and skin.

If you call a car a submarine, it'll never have the function and qualities of a submarine, no matter what. Because it's a car. And not a submarine.

The reason for why honey is sweet, is its sugar content, and the particular quality of sugar, which is sweetness. If you removed all the sugar and replaced it with salt, it's not honey, no matter how much you imagine it to be so, or how much you call it so. Try having guests over, and then if they ask for sugar for their coffee, give them salt. Tell them it's sugar anyways. Pay attention to what happens next.

To use yet another example: If a vegan comes to visit you, and you know they are vegan, and they have told you so, and you have agreed to cook a vegan meal to them, do you think they will appreciate it when you serve them a large plate of bacon, which you call "salad"? Is the bacon salad just because you call it salad?

If and when it comes to a point where you need to use a damaru, you should actually use a damaru, and nothing else. A damaru is defined as a damaru based on what it is made of and how it is made.
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climb-up
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by climb-up »

Norwegian wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:18 am
But it's not a damaru. A damaru is made out of skulls and skin.

What about the damarus that are made of wood?
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Cinnabar
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Cinnabar »

pemachophel wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:58 pm Cinnabar,

I need to reskin one of my damarus. What do you use to hold the skin in place while the glue is drying, and what kind of glue do you use?

You can PM me.
I used a soft goat skin. In part because it was available, in part because drum people said it gave a lower tone. Good for a Chod drum.

We used a wood glue. Attempts with a synthetic glue were failures as everything took some tweaking. Such glue set too fast. Stains the goat skin. The wood glue allowed the skin to be pulled, adjusted.

Holding it in place was attempted in different ways. We made a band that slid over the lip of the drum. The skin was cut oversized so it could be pulled behind the band. Holding it later with pins. I figured out since I could use a long wide zip tie.

I love the finish of it. Kept it natural. It’s very rough (craft wise, not texture), but the whole drum is. I’d have upgraded it, but it has sentimental value. From my teacher to me.

I figure people here would deem it a “fail”, but I love it. Tone is good. Looks good. Lama’s energy. Grand lama too.
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tobes
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by tobes »

Norwegian wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:18 am
karmanyingpo wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:31 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:44 pm

I did answer it. You just didn't like the answer.
If we rephrase the question to, can one practice chod to positive effect with a damaru that is made non traditionally, with only vegan materials, what would the answer be? (and then to expand, to what extant can one practice chod and accomplish the practice truly with such a damaru?)

Just wondering too. I am not a vegan nor am I needing to travel to a strict custom country any time soon.


KN
But it's not a damaru. A damaru is made out of skulls and skin.

If you call a car a submarine, it'll never have the function and qualities of a submarine, no matter what. Because it's a car. And not a submarine.

The reason for why honey is sweet, is its sugar content, and the particular quality of sugar, which is sweetness. If you removed all the sugar and replaced it with salt, it's not honey, no matter how much you imagine it to be so, or how much you call it so. Try having guests over, and then if they ask for sugar for their coffee, give them salt. Tell them it's sugar anyways. Pay attention to what happens next.

To use yet another example: If a vegan comes to visit you, and you know they are vegan, and they have told you so, and you have agreed to cook a vegan meal to them, do you think they will appreciate it when you serve them a large plate of bacon, which you call "salad"? Is the bacon salad just because you call it salad?

If and when it comes to a point where you need to use a damaru, you should actually use a damaru, and nothing else. A damaru is defined as a damaru based on what it is made of and how it is made.
I don't think this metaphor works. A skullcup used to be.....an actual skull. Using metal ones has not altered the conventional properties of the skullcup one iota. We don't utilise them because there is some essence in the skull that we need to generate realisations of impermanence; the skull is itself a symbol of this and it depends on the mind to interpret it as such.
Cinnabar
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Cinnabar »

tobes wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:07 am I don't think this metaphor works. A skullcup used to be.....an actual skull. Using metal ones has not altered the conventional properties of the skullcup one iota. We don't utilise them because there is some essence in the skull that we need to generate realisations of impermanence; the skull is itself a symbol of this and it depends on the mind to interpret it as such.
My main teacher would say that one needs bone kapalas for some things. Exchange is not allowed.

In other cases metal is fine.

Which is why I’m picking at this thread a bit as there is a nuance I am missing.

Adaptations of some tantric ritual objects seems acceptable, others not.
Malcolm
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Malcolm »

Nicholas2727 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:49 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:21 am
peterscott87 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:29 pm Looking for a damaru without leather. My teacher told me no such thing exists, and I've searched everywhere with no luck, but I have hope that maybe someone has more extensive knowledge than me.
Doesn’t exist. Vajrayana and Veganism are mutually exclusive.
Are you saying that one can not be vegan and practice Vajrayana?
Yes.
Nicholas2727
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Nicholas2727 »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:45 am
Nicholas2727 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:49 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:21 am

Doesn’t exist. Vajrayana and Veganism are mutually exclusive.
Are you saying that one can not be vegan and practice Vajrayana?
Yes.
Thank you for the clarification. Would you be able to elaborate on why it is not possible? Matthieu Ricard is one of the very few Tibetan teachers that I know is vegan and I think it is safe to say he is practicing Vajrayana. Although, this may be getting too far off the original topic.
Malcolm
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Malcolm »

Nicholas2727 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:07 am
Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:45 am
Nicholas2727 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:49 pm

Are you saying that one can not be vegan and practice Vajrayana?
Yes.
Would you be able to elaborate on why it is not possible?
One cannot reject samaya substances. You may consult Sakya Pandita on this point.
Cinnabar
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Cinnabar »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:12 am One cannot reject samaya substances. You may consult Sakya Pandita on this point.
I have seen vegetarians and vegans deal with this in different ways. When I was a vegetarian I ate the samaya substances. Meat at ganapuja, whatever goes into blessing pills. I have seen others do this as well.

I think all would still consider themselves veg/vegan despite this partaking of samaya substances.

Of course I have seen the opposite. At one ganapuja there was a fight and nastiness over the presence of meat and alcohol.
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tobes
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by tobes »

Cinnabar wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:39 am
tobes wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:07 am I don't think this metaphor works. A skullcup used to be.....an actual skull. Using metal ones has not altered the conventional properties of the skullcup one iota. We don't utilise them because there is some essence in the skull that we need to generate realisations of impermanence; the skull is itself a symbol of this and it depends on the mind to interpret it as such.
My main teacher would say that one needs bone kapalas for some things. Exchange is not allowed.

In other cases metal is fine.

Which is why I’m picking at this thread a bit as there is a nuance I am missing.

Adaptations of some tantric ritual objects seems acceptable, others not.
Sure, but going back to the metaphor I was addressing, it's not a submarine is it?!
Cinnabar
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Cinnabar »

tobes wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:39 am
Cinnabar wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:39 am
tobes wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:07 am I don't think this metaphor works. A skullcup used to be.....an actual skull. Using metal ones has not altered the conventional properties of the skullcup one iota. We don't utilise them because there is some essence in the skull that we need to generate realisations of impermanence; the skull is itself a symbol of this and it depends on the mind to interpret it as such.
My main teacher would say that one needs bone kapalas for some things. Exchange is not allowed.

In other cases metal is fine.

Which is why I’m picking at this thread a bit as there is a nuance I am missing.

Adaptations of some tantric ritual objects seems acceptable, others not.
Sure, but going back to the metaphor I was addressing, it's not a submarine is it?!
Sure. I just want to learn the difference and understand why.

I know about some objects. Not others.
PeterC
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by PeterC »

Cinnabar wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:24 am Of course I have seen the opposite. At one ganapuja there was a fight and nastiness over the presence of meat and alcohol.
People objected to meat and alcohol in a feast offering? How did that play out exactly? Did they know anything about the ritual they were performing, or the vows they had taken?
Malcolm
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Malcolm »

Cinnabar wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:24 am
Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:12 am One cannot reject samaya substances. You may consult Sakya Pandita on this point.
I have seen vegetarians and vegans deal with this in different ways. When I was a vegetarian I ate the samaya substances. Meat at ganapuja, whatever goes into blessing pills. I have seen others do this as well.

I think all would still consider themselves veg/vegan despite this partaking of samaya substances.

Of course I have seen the opposite. At one ganapuja there was a fight and nastiness over the presence of meat and alcohol.
Vegans also reject lower tantra substances, such as milk and the other five products of a cow, honey, etc.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Hazel »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:39 pm
Cinnabar wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:24 am
Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:12 am One cannot reject samaya substances. You may consult Sakya Pandita on this point.
I have seen vegetarians and vegans deal with this in different ways. When I was a vegetarian I ate the samaya substances. Meat at ganapuja, whatever goes into blessing pills. I have seen others do this as well.

I think all would still consider themselves veg/vegan despite this partaking of samaya substances.

Of course I have seen the opposite. At one ganapuja there was a fight and nastiness over the presence of meat and alcohol.
Vegans also reject lower tantra substances, such as milk and the other five products of a cow, honey, etc.
Can people who have taken refuge vows not to engage in intoxicants not partake in tantra then if alcohol is a samaya substance?
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

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Malcolm
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Malcolm »

Hazel wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:40 pm
Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:39 pm
Cinnabar wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:24 am

I have seen vegetarians and vegans deal with this in different ways. When I was a vegetarian I ate the samaya substances. Meat at ganapuja, whatever goes into blessing pills. I have seen others do this as well.

I think all would still consider themselves veg/vegan despite this partaking of samaya substances.

Of course I have seen the opposite. At one ganapuja there was a fight and nastiness over the presence of meat and alcohol.
Vegans also reject lower tantra substances, such as milk and the other five products of a cow, honey, etc.
Can people who have taken refuge vows not to engage in intoxicants not partake in tantra then if alcohol is a samaya substance?

Higher vows are to be followed where they contradict the lower vow.
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Budai
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Budai »

Wouldn’t all this differ from Teacher to Teacher? For example let me tell you something confidential. I had gotten blessing pills from Garchen Rinpoche and I liked them so much I ate them faster than I should have, and I had eaten all of them. Then I watched a Medicine Buddha Empowerment by Him sometime later. At a certain part of the Empowerment His Eminence Garchen Rinpoche was handing out blessing pills and said that it is crucial for the Empowerment to take one, but if we had one from any or other Teachers that would be fine too. So I asked for Garchen Rinpoche to make a pill out of Spirit for me and put it into my heart. I put my hand to the screen as if I was taking a pill then put it into my heart. It felt physically, emotionally, and Spiritually that I actually took one of the blessing pills He gave me earlier in the mail, I felt the feeling of the pill in my being, except this pill was made of Complete Spirit. And I clearly felt it. I Love Garchen Rinpoche dearly and I received the Empowerment. So what is possible is what is possible, and so in some instances it may be possible for a similar experience if accepted by one’s Teacher. Namaste. The Dharma is Love.
Cinnabar
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Cinnabar »

PeterC wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:38 am
Cinnabar wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:24 am Of course I have seen the opposite. At one ganapuja there was a fight and nastiness over the presence of meat and alcohol.
People objected to meat and alcohol in a feast offering? How did that play out exactly? Did they know anything about the ritual they were performing, or the vows they had taken?
Yes. A lama taught here. Then we did a ganachakra at the end. A nice one. These three vegan peeps flipped the frak out. They kept the lid on it. Then they got preachy and left. Lama just laughed the whole time. The rest of us just watched.

Stranger things have happened at public teachings.
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