Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

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Budai
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Budai »

That is a very good read.

It says revulsion for Tantric substances is bad. I agree that in that form of Buddhism Shakyamuni’s intent is there. This is Buddhism. For those not wishing to partake in the offering, they can imagine that they do, but having revulsion is disrespectful. That makes sense.

This is different from leather and meat and alcohol on the modern western context from stores and restaurants. The way I see it, in Vajrayana those offerings are a special thing, with directions behind them. We aren’t participating in Buddhist worship when we eat a steak, unless we do some sort of Buddhist prayer or meditation or mantra in the process, then feeling revulsion towards someone doing that and their meat would be a downfall.

Another thing, we don’t have to eat a steak with them, we can eat a salad and some potatoes. That’s easier on life.

But aversion to negative karmic actions is helpful though, and to walk the Noble Eightfold Path. It says we also shouldn’t have aversion towards the Kleshas, and that’s where it comes from.

I think it’s important to be Compassionate towards wearing leather and eating meat and drinking milk and have leather bound books in many instances, and to have tolerance when things cannot be changed easily. I just think we should be kind to all life as soon as we can. Namaste.
Last edited by Budai on Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Cinnabar wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:38 pm

For me in late 20th century early 21st century America-- it's a *shrug* in terms of working with transgression. Quite honestly if somebody served me roast beef and a glass of 18 year old Glenmorangie at a ganapuja, I wouldn't be working with revulsion in my mind. I'd be working with attachment. I wan't more scotch. I'd be working with peevishness if the choppon put ice in my glass. If I have a revulsion at ganapuja it's not about meat and alchohol. It's probably about a PopTart.

Of course there are very deep meanings related to having meat and alcohol and eating them in general.

But I'm not seeing the transgressiveness.

Maybe this is an issue for veg/vegan people because it truly *is* trangressive at some level. Which is why my veg/vegan friends who take samaya substances are generally really great practitioners. But what do I know.

On a personal level, it just seems my practice is bogus, as I've not gotten this transgression from the beginning.
I was talking specifically about what Konchok Chodrak said about not touching things that are made of leather, not the larger issue of vegetarian Tsok etc. which I personally have no issue with at all.

I wasn't really referencing anything about transgression, but rather than closeness to death and dying is part and parcel of Buddhist practice, the idea that one would think a random piece of leather is all icky (which is separate from the ethics of buying it, supporting it etc.) and wouldn't touch it personally on those grounds is what I think is contrary to Tantra.

Heck not even just Tantra, that kind of attitude is a purist attitude and plays into some cultural notions about death, ugliness, and purity that I think are worth poking at.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Cinnabar »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:05 pm I was talking specifically about what Konchok Chodrak said about not touching things that are made of leather, not the larger issue of vegetarian Tsok etc. which I personally have no issue with at all.

I wasn't really referencing anything about transgression, but rather than closeness to death and dying is part and parcel of Buddhist practice, the idea that one would think a random piece of leather is all icky (which is separate from the ethics of buying it, supporting it etc.) and wouldn't touch it personally on those grounds is what I think is contrary to Tantra.

Heck not even just Tantra, that kind of attitude is a purist attitude and plays into some cultural notions about death, ugliness, and purity that I think are worth poking at.
I got your argument with Konchok Chodrak.

Was just looking at this from a different angle.

Apologies.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Budai »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:05 pm that kind of attitude is a purist attitude and plays into some cultural notions about death, ugliness, and purity that I think are worth poking at.
I see what you are getting at. But how far will we go with it? Natural aversions to bad smells and pain are there too. I guess we must start building the Pure Land together, and not give up on attaining Buddhahood. But even Buddha didn’t want bad, and needed good. We still need to breathe. And we can’t say suffocation is aversion. There’s animals suffocating in pens right now, and in bags somewhere because of their gender. Such bad things are happening. I think a clear choice needs to be made how to act in this world and even though we may not be really here, the Upaya of our bodies needs to be respected because we still need to go towards Enlightenment, helping others along the Way.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by PeterC »

Könchok Chödrak wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:42 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:05 pm that kind of attitude is a purist attitude and plays into some cultural notions about death, ugliness, and purity that I think are worth poking at.
I see what you are getting at. But how far will we go with it? Natural aversions to bad smells and pain are there too. I guess we must start building the Pure Land together, and not give up on attaining Buddhahood. But even Buddha didn’t want bad, and needed good. We still need to breathe. And we can’t say suffocation is aversion. There’s animals suffocating in pens right now, and in bags somewhere because of their gender. Such bad things are happening. I think a clear choice needs to be made how to act in this world and even though we may not be really here, the Upaya of our bodies needs to be respected because we still need to go towards Enlightenment, helping others along the Way.
Compassion for living beings is of course extremely important, but if you're going to practice HYT, that involves specific practices with specific training purposes, and you need to either do them or not practice that vehicle. The view and vows of HYT include and expand on the views of the lower vehicles, they don't conflict with them.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Budai »

I don’t doubt all real Buddhism is perfect and has an authentic Purpose for Enlightenment for it’s followers, nor will I cast judgement on any authentic and authorized Buddhist Practice. I think Buddhism is always doing good, and there is a time and a place and lifetime for the various Practices and Schools dependent on the Bodhisattva’s needs and wishes that are according to sentient beings’ needs. So thank you for the information.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Virgo »

pemachophel wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:58 pm I need to reskin one of my damarus. What do you use to hold the skin in place while the glue is drying, and what kind of glue do you use?

You can PM me.
Vegan glue. :namaste:

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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Jangchup Donden »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:59 pm
Könchok Chödrak wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:30 pm
Some leather in America comes from bad places, such as factory farms, and humans are not different from an animals in their desire not to suffer. And they are more innocent than us.
Leather does not suffer. So we should just waste all that material? Let them die for nothing?
I would imagine having part of your body being used for a Vajrayana ritual implement would set up some very good interdependence for you, even more so if merits of practice were dedicated to you.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Cinnabar »

Jangchup Donden wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:11 am
Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:59 pm
Könchok Chödrak wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:30 pm
Some leather in America comes from bad places, such as factory farms, and humans are not different from an animals in their desire not to suffer. And they are more innocent than us.
Leather does not suffer. So we should just waste all that material? Let them die for nothing?
I would imagine having part of your body being used for a Vajrayana ritual implement would set up some very good interdependence for you, even more so if merits of practice were dedicated to you.
It’s funny you say that. In talking about death and wills with fellow practitioners this very thing came up.

In my case— probably a curse to the yogini who uses my noggin or femurs.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by climb-up »

Cinnabar wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:21 am
Jangchup Donden wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:11 am
Malcolm wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:59 pm

Leather does not suffer. So we should just waste all that material? Let them die for nothing?
I would imagine having part of your body being used for a Vajrayana ritual implement would set up some very good interdependence for you, even more so if merits of practice were dedicated to you.
It’s funny you say that. In talking about death and wills with fellow practitioners this very thing came up.

In my case— probably a curse to the yogini who uses my noggin or femurs.
I don’t know where you live, I don’t think it’s really possible in the USA, but are you saying you would curse a tantric practitioner for using your remains in the dharma?
... :o
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Cinnabar »

climb-up wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:56 am I don’t know where you live, I don’t think it’s really possible in the USA, but are you saying you would curse a tantric practitioner for using your remains in the dharma?
I don’t know where you got the idea that I’d curse anyone.

I was joking my bones would be no good...
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by climb-up »

Cinnabar wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:51 am
climb-up wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:56 am I don’t know where you live, I don’t think it’s really possible in the USA, but are you saying you would curse a tantric practitioner for using your remains in the dharma?
I don’t know where you got the idea that I’d curse anyone.

I was joking my bones would be no good...
Oh, interesting.
I got that it was, at least partially, a joke; but I thought it was saying “don’t touch my bones.”

...I suspect your femurs would be perfectly good ;) :thumbsup:
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by Cinnabar »

climb-up wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:45 am
Cinnabar wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:51 am
climb-up wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:56 am I don’t know where you live, I don’t think it’s really possible in the USA, but are you saying you would curse a tantric practitioner for using your remains in the dharma?
I don’t know where you got the idea that I’d curse anyone.

I was joking my bones would be no good...
Oh, interesting.
I got that it was, at least partially, a joke; but I thought it was saying “don’t touch my bones.”

...I suspect your femurs would be perfectly good ;) :thumbsup:
There are strict guidelines in the Machig Namshe. My bones would be bad for a practitioner.
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Re: Does a Vegan Damaru exist anywhere?

Post by climb-up »

Cinnabar wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:58 pm
climb-up wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:45 am
Cinnabar wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:51 am

I don’t know where you got the idea that I’d curse anyone.

I was joking my bones would be no good...
Oh, interesting.
I got that it was, at least partially, a joke; but I thought it was saying “don’t touch my bones.”

...I suspect your femurs would be perfectly good ;) :thumbsup:
There are strict guidelines in the Machig Namshe. My bones would be bad for a practitioner.
Oh, interesting.
Well, I guess no kapala for you skull then ...paperweight? :shrug: :rolling:
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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