Practicing without empowerment
Practicing without empowerment
First, I have ZERO intention of practicing without an empowerment. I take that seriously.
What happens if someone does, though?
I've heard on one end of the spectrum that the practice is simply without fruit and on the other end of the spectrum that bad things will happen to you in this life.
What are the official schools of thought on this?
What happens if someone does, though?
I've heard on one end of the spectrum that the practice is simply without fruit and on the other end of the spectrum that bad things will happen to you in this life.
What are the official schools of thought on this?
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!
What do you see when you turn out the lights?
What do you see when you turn out the lights?
-
- Posts: 1586
- Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:39 pm
Re: Practicing without empowerment
I think that it is without fruit is beyond doubt.
-
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:19 pm
Re: Practicing without empowerment
I think it depends on the practice, no?Hazel wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:27 pm First, I have ZERO intention of practicing without an empowerment. I take that seriously.
What happens if someone does, though?
I've heard on one end of the spectrum that the practice is simply without fruit and on the other end of the spectrum that bad things will happen to you in this life.
What are the official schools of thought on this?
I think practicing for example Tara or Chenrezig without empowerment is not likely to cause bad things to happen, if you are working under a lama's direction and especially if you have a transmission.
Trying to do a Mahakala sadhana for example is likely to be much different....
Personally I find this to be a useful view and approach: view the teacher and the practice as inseperable. It is not Lama So And So and THEN Sadhana So and So... It is Sadhana So and So + Lama So and So part and parcel, the teacher is not something in between you and the practice but part of the practice it self. So whatever they say, assuming of course they are a legitimate real qualified teacher, that is good to follow. If the teacher who teaches you the practice says okay you can do this now, then you can trust that those are your instructions for your practice that you have received, if they say you can do this now that you have my transmission or this other person's transmission, that is your instruction for the practice and good to follow, if they say you need empowerment then that is good to follow and so on
KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
Re: Practicing without empowerment
Practicing as a aspiration is ok, but reality is nothing will occur. Empowerment is the heart of the transmission,
Without it is like trying to live without a heart.
There’s no life to it.
A person cannot achieve the function of a practice without.
- Johnny Dangerous
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 17092
- Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
- Location: Olympia WA
- Contact:
Re: Practicing without empowerment
Everything from "nothing much will happen" to "you will cut off future connections to Dharma"...and everything in between. "Official schools of thought" run the gamut...like everything in Vajrayana.Hazel wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:27 pm First, I have ZERO intention of practicing without an empowerment. I take that seriously.
What happens if someone does, though?
I've heard on one end of the spectrum that the practice is simply without fruit and on the other end of the spectrum that bad things will happen to you in this life.
What are the official schools of thought on this?
For unrestricted practices such as Chenrezig and Tara, I've had my teachers say it creates a good connection to earnestly practice them, including the possibility of empowerment down the line. This was exactly how I was instructed - do the unrestricted practices (with a Lama and group, limited way on own time) and get empowerment when you can.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Practicing without empowerment
As others have pointed out, it depends on the practice.
There are unrestricted Chenrezig, Tara, Medicine Budda, Amithabha and Vajrasatva practices. They donr really have "empowerments" per se. They can have reading transmission or "lung". This is someone qualified to do so, reads you the liturgy. That can be a lama or in some cases someone who has recieved the transmission before. A lung is optional. It's said to increase the merit of the practice, but isn't a strict requirement.
There are unrestricted Chenrezig, Tara, Medicine Budda, Amithabha and Vajrasatva practices. They donr really have "empowerments" per se. They can have reading transmission or "lung". This is someone qualified to do so, reads you the liturgy. That can be a lama or in some cases someone who has recieved the transmission before. A lung is optional. It's said to increase the merit of the practice, but isn't a strict requirement.
Re: Practicing without empowerment
Is there an official Teaching for how Empowerments from past lives carry over?
Re: Practicing without empowerment
It doesn’t. There might well be a karmic connection which carries the person towards a particular practice and results in them rediscovering a past link. But they will need a fresh Empowerment from a lineage holder.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:12 am Is there an official Teaching for how Empowerments from past lives carry over?
Re: Practicing without empowerment
The answer is short: they don't. Some affinity for the practice might, but the empowerment does not.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:12 am Is there an official Teaching for how Empowerments from past lives carry over?
All best wishes
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Re: Practicing without empowerment
There are plenty of things you can do without an empowerment. You can do lojong, shamatha, read sutras, recite prayers, observe ethical conduct, etc.Hazel wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:27 pm First, I have ZERO intention of practicing without an empowerment. I take that seriously.
What happens if someone does, though?
I've heard on one end of the spectrum that the practice is simply without fruit and on the other end of the spectrum that bad things will happen to you in this life.
What are the official schools of thought on this?
You can’t do tantric practices without an empowerment, however, aside from possibly one or two mantras. As many have pointed out, empowerments are taken on the basis of this body and therefore do not carry over from past lives.
If one does practice something that requires empowerment the best result you can have is nothing at all. The worst is that you accrue negative karma from having violated the secrecy of the texts, making it harder to receive them properly. But how that plays out would be situation-specific. The important point is that there is no positive outcome from engaging in practices for which you lack the correct authorization.
Re: Practicing without empowerment
Yes, the official teaching is that they do not.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:12 am Is there an official Teaching for how Empowerments from past lives carry over?
- Könchok Thrinley
- Former staff member
- Posts: 3275
- Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am
- Location: He/Him from EU
Re: Practicing without empowerment
I have always wondered, how is it possible then that just barely keeping samayas pure leads to liberation within 16 lifetimes?Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:23 pmYes, the official teaching is that they do not.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:12 am Is there an official Teaching for how Empowerments from past lives carry over?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Re: Practicing without empowerment
One needs to keep them in order to meet Vajrayana teachings again in each of those lifetimes. Hence, the aspirations to meet the guru again and again.Könchok Thrinley wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:20 pmI have always wondered, how is it possible then that just barely keeping samayas pure leads to liberation within 16 lifetimes?Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:23 pmYes, the official teaching is that they do not.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:12 am Is there an official Teaching for how Empowerments from past lives carry over?
Re: Practicing without empowerment
Is there a Teaching about the various Bodhisattva Vows carrying over? Because not every Bodhisattva can be born into a situation where they can formally take the Vows again under a Teacher sometimes, but according to the needs of the living entities, the Bodhisattva comes. This is true for Avalokakitesvara, and such others. Are the Bodhisattva Vows considered Eternal as long as one keeps them?
Re: Practicing without empowerment
“Eternal”? The great Mahasattvas are not gods. They arise in Great Emptiness and dissolve in Great Emptiness.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:11 pm Is there a Teaching about the various Bodhisattva Vows carrying over? Because not every Bodhisattva can be born into a situation where they can formally take the Vows again under a Teacher sometimes, but according to the needs of the living entities, the Bodhisattva comes. This is true for Avalokakitesvara, and such others. Are the Bodhisattva Vows considered Eternal as long as one keeps them?
There are two extremes to avoid, one to see Bodhisattvas as only symbols. The other extreme is to reify them and make them entities with permanence.
Last edited by Giovanni on Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Practicing without empowerment
Of course not, how can you keep a vow you don't remember? But Bodhisattvas will for sure meet the vows every life, and they will also keep them.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:11 pm Is there a Teaching about the various Bodhisattva Vows carrying over? Because not every Bodhisattva can be born into a situation where they can formally take the Vows again under a Teacher sometimes, but according to the needs of the living entities, the Bodhisattva comes. This is true for Avalokakitesvara, and such others. Are the Bodhisattva Vows considered Eternal as long as one keeps them?
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Practicing without empowerment
Wouldn’t some of the most important things in life carry over from a past life, as there are Tulkus and Lamas who can remember their trinkets from past lives and in that way become recognized as reincarnations? It is possible to remember past lives, and many Advanced practitioners can recognize others as reincarnations.heart wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:16 pmOf course not, how can you keep a vow you don't remember? But Bodhisattvas will for sure meet the vows every life, and they will also keep them.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:11 pm Is there a Teaching about the various Bodhisattva Vows carrying over? Because not every Bodhisattva can be born into a situation where they can formally take the Vows again under a Teacher sometimes, but according to the needs of the living entities, the Bodhisattva comes. This is true for Avalokakitesvara, and such others. Are the Bodhisattva Vows considered Eternal as long as one keeps them?
/magnus
Re: Practicing without empowerment
Yes, the bodhisattva vows are the only vows that one carries from one life to the next.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:11 pm Is there a Teaching about the various Bodhisattva Vows carrying over?
Re: Practicing without empowerment
Thank you. Much like this, so does being a Buddha , of course. This is a basic fundamental truth that must be understood by all in Metta. I think the Bodhisattvas who have reached the stage of no regression mentioned by Shakyamuni in the Lotus Sutra, for example, are doing some of the best work for us, and we should all aspire to be like them, for they will no doubt reach Supreme Perfect Enlightenment in their search for it!Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:25 pmYes, the bodhisattva vows are the only vows that one carries from one life to the next.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:11 pm Is there a Teaching about the various Bodhisattva Vows carrying over?
- Johnny Dangerous
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 17092
- Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
- Location: Olympia WA
- Contact:
Re: Practicing without empowerment
A Buddha doesn't get reborn once they are a Buddha...Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:29 pmThank you. Much like this, so does being a Buddha , of course. This is a basic fundamental truth that must be understood by all in Metta. I think the Bodhisattvas who have reached the stage of no regression mentioned by Shakyamuni in the Lotus Sutra, for example, are doing some of the best work for us, and we should all aspire to be like them, for they will no doubt reach Supreme Perfect Enlightenment in their search for it!Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:25 pmYes, the bodhisattva vows are the only vows that one carries from one life to the next.Könchok Chödrak wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:11 pm Is there a Teaching about the various Bodhisattva Vows carrying over?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama