Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

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karmanyingpo
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Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by karmanyingpo »

Any advice for a 2-3 day retreat of reciting mostly mantra from sun up to sun down?
Practical concerns include general stamina as well as things like voice getting tired, dry mouth etc.
I suppose it would be useful to have a cup of water handy and to chant quietly so as not to tire the voice?

Perhaps varying it and chanting quickly at times, chanting slower at others, at other times singing the mantra in melody, to switch it up could also help?

I am not sure I can do it anyway but just want advice in case, who knows what may happen in the future. My teacher is a teacher from a distance and he did not say no to the idea but did give me the option to just do longer sits instead. So really this is something that falls into the category of "allowed but not required/requested"

Any advice would be appreciated

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
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kirtu
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by kirtu »

karmanyingpo wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:06 pm Any advice for a 2-3 day retreat of reciting mostly mantra from sun up to sun down?
Practical concerns include general stamina as well as things like voice getting tired, dry mouth etc.
I suppose it would be useful to have a cup of water handy and to chant quietly so as not to tire the voice?

Perhaps varying it and chanting quickly at times, chanting slower at others, at other times singing the mantra in melody, to switch it up could also help?

I am not sure I can do it anyway but just want advice in case, who knows what may happen in the future. My teacher is a teacher from a distance and he did not say no to the idea but did give me the option to just do longer sits instead. So really this is something that falls into the category of "allowed but not required/requested"

Any advice would be appreciated

KN
Apparently you haven't done this before.

Just mantra recitation would be difficult and many people would say that it is a missed opportunity. Better would be to do a specific sadhana and within the sadhana practice do the mantra recitation. Then in the off-sessions (away from formal sadhana) do constant mantra recitation. There are many different variations of off-session mantra recitation. Make sure you eat and add "formal" eating - blessing and mantra recitation while eating.

Integrate tea/coffee breaks (TB frowns on coffee breaks so these are tea breaks but I have lamas who also like coffee :rolling: ).

In the TB tradition you sit in four sessions. You can make these sessions long or shorter. Since you are planning all-day mantra recitation go for longer sessions (min 2 hrs).

Add in walking during which you recite mantra - however some people want to restrict their mini-retreat to their house or local area like in a formal retreat. That's okay too but it's easier to integrate the mantra recitation with some exercise like walking (really).

Be flexible. Plan for eight hours of sleep. You will probably be tired after the first day.

This is a basic outline that my Sakya lama taught me. It is also similar to Zen seshin in many ways.

Kirt
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by Budai »

Once I chanted out loud non stop two years every day, all day, without talking to anyone, just wrote things down on pieces of paper and made hand gestures to communicate outwardly. I still chant mostly non-stop but now I talk and chant within my mind sometimes, sometimes out loud, and chant various mantras.

My advice is to take your Gurus advice fully seriously, and not to worry. It's very practically possible to chant all of the time, and it is a natural state of mind. Have confidence! :heart:

Om Mani Padme Hum.
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by karmanyingpo »

kirtu wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:20 am
karmanyingpo wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:06 pm Any advice for a 2-3 day retreat of reciting mostly mantra from sun up to sun down?
Practical concerns include general stamina as well as things like voice getting tired, dry mouth etc.
I suppose it would be useful to have a cup of water handy and to chant quietly so as not to tire the voice?

Perhaps varying it and chanting quickly at times, chanting slower at others, at other times singing the mantra in melody, to switch it up could also help?

I am not sure I can do it anyway but just want advice in case, who knows what may happen in the future. My teacher is a teacher from a distance and he did not say no to the idea but did give me the option to just do longer sits instead. So really this is something that falls into the category of "allowed but not required/requested"

Any advice would be appreciated

KN
Apparently you haven't done this before.

Just mantra recitation would be difficult and many people would say that it is a missed opportunity. Better would be to do a specific sadhana and within the sadhana practice do the mantra recitation. Then in the off-sessions (away from formal sadhana) do constant mantra recitation. There are many different variations of off-session mantra recitation. Make sure you eat and add "formal" eating - blessing and mantra recitation while eating.

Integrate tea/coffee breaks (TB frowns on coffee breaks so these are tea breaks but I have lamas who also like coffee :rolling: ).

In the TB tradition you sit in four sessions. You can make these sessions long or shorter. Since you are planning all-day mantra recitation go for longer sessions (min 2 hrs).

Add in walking during which you recite mantra - however some people want to restrict their mini-retreat to their house or local area like in a formal retreat. That's okay too but it's easier to integrate the mantra recitation with some exercise like walking (really).

Be flexible. Plan for eight hours of sleep. You will probably be tired after the first day.

This is a basic outline that my Sakya lama taught me. It is also similar to Zen seshin in many ways.

Kirt
Thx for your input

This specific sadhana is just mantra

I did attempt it for 1 day once. It was tiring on the voice and on the mind so I went to bed very very early to shorten it.

Agreed on walking - I definitely needed that. No way I could sit the whole time.

On the four session thing - perhaps schedule could be something like
Wake up, brush teeth get ready eat (with offering/visualization usual for meal time) etc. (perhaps mentally reciting mantra or out loud if possible during this) - 1 hr estimated
First session starts - go for 2 hrs
Break for eating/drinking/walking - 1 hr? informally do mantra thru out breaks, usual meal time visualization etc
Second session starts - 2.5 hrs
Break again for eating/drinking - 1 hr
Third session - 2 hrs
Break - 1 hr
Fourth session - 2.5 hrs
Get ready for bed maybe eat drink - 1 hr
14 hrs total, meaning 10 hrs sleep give or take...

Sounds more doable with that format. Last time it was more haphazard less structured/scheduled

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
karmanyingpo
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by karmanyingpo »

karmanyingpo wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:58 am
kirtu wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:20 am
karmanyingpo wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:06 pm Any advice for a 2-3 day retreat of reciting mostly mantra from sun up to sun down?
Practical concerns include general stamina as well as things like voice getting tired, dry mouth etc.
I suppose it would be useful to have a cup of water handy and to chant quietly so as not to tire the voice?

Perhaps varying it and chanting quickly at times, chanting slower at others, at other times singing the mantra in melody, to switch it up could also help?

I am not sure I can do it anyway but just want advice in case, who knows what may happen in the future. My teacher is a teacher from a distance and he did not say no to the idea but did give me the option to just do longer sits instead. So really this is something that falls into the category of "allowed but not required/requested"

Any advice would be appreciated

KN
Apparently you haven't done this before.

Just mantra recitation would be difficult and many people would say that it is a missed opportunity. Better would be to do a specific sadhana and within the sadhana practice do the mantra recitation. Then in the off-sessions (away from formal sadhana) do constant mantra recitation. There are many different variations of off-session mantra recitation. Make sure you eat and add "formal" eating - blessing and mantra recitation while eating.

Integrate tea/coffee breaks (TB frowns on coffee breaks so these are tea breaks but I have lamas who also like coffee :rolling: ).

In the TB tradition you sit in four sessions. You can make these sessions long or shorter. Since you are planning all-day mantra recitation go for longer sessions (min 2 hrs).

Add in walking during which you recite mantra - however some people want to restrict their mini-retreat to their house or local area like in a formal retreat. That's okay too but it's easier to integrate the mantra recitation with some exercise like walking (really).

Be flexible. Plan for eight hours of sleep. You will probably be tired after the first day.

This is a basic outline that my Sakya lama taught me. It is also similar to Zen seshin in many ways.

Kirt
Thx for your input

This specific sadhana is just mantra

I did attempt it for 1 day once. It was tiring on the voice and on the mind so I went to bed very very early to shorten it.

Agreed on walking - I definitely needed that. No way I could sit the whole time.

On the four session thing - perhaps schedule could be something like
Wake up, brush teeth get ready eat (with offering/visualization usual for meal time) etc. (perhaps mentally reciting mantra or out loud if possible during this) - 1 hr estimated
First session starts - go for 2 hrs
Break for eating/drinking/walking - 1 hr? informally do mantra thru out breaks, usual meal time visualization etc
Second session starts - 2.5 hrs
Break again for eating/drinking - 1 hr
Third session - 2 hrs
Break - 1 hr
Fourth session - 2.5 hrs
Get ready for bed maybe eat drink - 1 hr
14 hrs total, meaning 10 hrs sleep give or take...

Sounds more doable with that format. Last time it was more haphazard less structured/scheduled

KN
Oh yes and my teacher said I can do ngondro also... .So one of those sessions or breaks can be replaced with an hour or two of ngondro to maintain continuity of that....

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by yagmort »

just go with the flow.
in my experience chanting vajrasattva mantra while doing ngöndro was very taxing, my tongue could barely move towards the end of a day and recitation speed has dropped 3-4 times.. and that just after 3 2-hours long session a day. same with sitting - if you wanna be able to be sitting for a long periods of time cross legged, you need to sit a lot.. if i were you i wouldn't set any fixed timetable, just do 2-3 sessions until it's not comfortable anymore (mind becomes dull, pronunciation becomes indistinct) and keep myself expectations free. once you feel you became adjusted to the current level you can increase time per session and/or numbers of sessions. what i am trying to convey here is accept your limits,don't stress yourself, don't be fixed on the outcome)
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by bryandavis »

This specific sadhana is just mantra
Usually a Sadhana implies some form of generation stage. You are saying you have an actual Sadhana this is just a mantra?
karmanyingpo
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by karmanyingpo »

bryandavis wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:23 am
This specific sadhana is just mantra
Usually a Sadhana implies some form of generation stage. You are saying you have an actual Sadhana this is just a mantra?
Yes as I understand it it is a sadhana but the version I have does not have generation or visualization at all.

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by Terma »

I have done a couple silent weekend retreats which involved meditation sessions and a few other practices. We had a set schedule and there was always plenty of time in between sessions for those that wanted to rest, or whatnot. We were encouraged to use this time to accumulate Mani's. (we used a small electronic counter) we were given a goal to try and complete a certain amount by the end of the weekend, just using the time in between sessions, during morning tea, etc. You would be surprised what it amounts to- both numerically and mind-wise.

We either recited silently, it else "into the collar" or under the breath as they say.

I found this approach to work really well in a retreat setting as a whole.
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by pemachophel »

This is just me but, if I had a Guru Who told me to do a certain practice, then I would depend entirely upon Him/Her for how to do that practice. I wouldn't be asking others' advice on a public forum like this. :namaste:
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by karmanyingpo »

pemachophel wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:44 pm This is just me but, if I had a Guru Who told me to do a certain practice, then I would depend entirely upon Him/Her for how to do that practice. I wouldn't be asking others' advice on a public forum like this. :namaste:
Thank you Lama Chophel that is good advice :namaste:
My Guru left the option to do this open to me, but he did not make a requirement or even a request of it, just left it open as an option (and that was only after I asked about it).
He said that if I choose, I can even not do a retreat and instead just do longer sessions with accumulation goals, if I wish to do so. But even that was just an option or suggestion rather than a request or recommendation. So it is all very "up to me" and relaxed.

He tends to be relaxed and leave a lot up to the student
So I was just wanting to open up this thread to seek very general practical tips on how not to tire myself if I do choose to do this, things that could be shared by fellow practitioners who have done similar things in the past, rather than practice-specific details that I would need to get from my Guru

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
karmanyingpo
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by karmanyingpo »

Terma wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:31 pm I have done a couple silent weekend retreats which involved meditation sessions and a few other practices. We had a set schedule and there was always plenty of time in between sessions for those that wanted to rest, or whatnot. We were encouraged to use this time to accumulate Mani's. (we used a small electronic counter) we were given a goal to try and complete a certain amount by the end of the weekend, just using the time in between sessions, during morning tea, etc. You would be surprised what it amounts to- both numerically and mind-wise.

We either recited silently, it else "into the collar" or under the breath as they say.

I found this approach to work really well in a retreat setting as a whole.
Thanks for the input. Could you give a brief sketch of the schedule or perhaps link me to where I could find a similar schedule? I am wondering how long the sits were and how long breaks in between were.

KN
ma lu dzok pe san gye thop par shok!
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by Terma »

karmanyingpo wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:59 pm
Terma wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:31 pm I have done a couple silent weekend retreats which involved meditation sessions and a few other practices. We had a set schedule and there was always plenty of time in between sessions for those that wanted to rest, or whatnot. We were encouraged to use this time to accumulate Mani's. (we used a small electronic counter) we were given a goal to try and complete a certain amount by the end of the weekend, just using the time in between sessions, during morning tea, etc. You would be surprised what it amounts to- both numerically and mind-wise.

We either recited silently, it else "into the collar" or under the breath as they say.

I found this approach to work really well in a retreat setting as a whole.
Thanks for the input. Could you give a brief sketch of the schedule or perhaps link me to where I could find a similar schedule? I am wondering how long the sits were and how long breaks in between were.

KN
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by Ayu »

karmanyingpo wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:58 pm
pemachophel wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:44 pm This is just me but, if I had a Guru Who told me to do a certain practice, then I would depend entirely upon Him/Her for how to do that practice. I wouldn't be asking others' advice on a public forum like this. :namaste:
Thank you Lama Chophel that is good advice :namaste:
My Guru left the option to do this open to me, but he did not make a requirement or even a request of it, just left it open as an option (and that was only after I asked about it).
He said that if I choose, I can even not do a retreat and instead just do longer sessions with accumulation goals, if I wish to do so. But even that was just an option or suggestion rather than a request or recommendation. So it is all very "up to me" and relaxed.

He tends to be relaxed and leave a lot up to the student
So I was just wanting to open up this thread to seek very general practical tips on how not to tire myself if I do choose to do this, things that could be shared by fellow practitioners who have done similar things in the past, rather than practice-specific details that I would need to get from my Guru

KN
In this case I would recommend to ask yourself. I think, it's a grace not to be bothered with too many restrictions and to be able to adjust the practice to the own needs.

E.g. if speaking /singing out loudly becomes inconvenient, I personally would try different things: skipping to silent recitation and start it loudly again as soon as I perceive that my mind starts wandering around and leaves the subject.

To listen to the own inner teacher is an important skill, IMHO, and it is good to train it.
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by Natan »

karmanyingpo wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:06 pm Any advice for a 2-3 day retreat of reciting mostly mantra from sun up to sun down?
Practical concerns include general stamina as well as things like voice getting tired, dry mouth etc.
I suppose it would be useful to have a cup of water handy and to chant quietly so as not to tire the voice?

Perhaps varying it and chanting quickly at times, chanting slower at others, at other times singing the mantra in melody, to switch it up could also help?

I am not sure I can do it anyway but just want advice in case, who knows what may happen in the future. My teacher is a teacher from a distance and he did not say no to the idea but did give me the option to just do longer sits instead. So really this is something that falls into the category of "allowed but not required/requested"

Any advice would be appreciated

KN
Exactly. Make yourself comfortable. Keep something to sip on. Whisper quietly so as to conserve energy.
Danny
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Re: Seeking advice for all day mantra recitation

Post by Danny »

The point lama pema makes is good advice.
Just do it. But quietly. No need to share with the world.
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