Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

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karmanyingpo
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Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by karmanyingpo »

https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-ma ... g-offering
Hello all, I was wondering if this Brief Sang Offering by Mipham Rinpoche was okay to use without transmission or if it requires transmission like Riwo Sangcho.

Thx

KN
pemachophel
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by pemachophel »

Yes, it requires lung. It's actually quite a high practice in terms of its view.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
karmanyingpo
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by karmanyingpo »

pemachophel wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:03 pm Yes, it requires lung. It's actually quite a high practice in terms of its view.
Thank you! Your advice is always appreciated.

KN
Soma999
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by Soma999 »

I did sang offerings before lung, and after lung.

I felt it works both before and after.
karmanyingpo
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by karmanyingpo »

Soma999 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:19 pm I did sang offerings before lung, and after lung.

I felt it works both before and after.
But Pema Chophel la, who as I understand is a teacher, says lung is needed for this sang. So perhaps for this one it is best not to do it without lung? Do you know of a sang practice that can be done without transmission?

I have lung for riwo sangcho but don't want to ruin the practice so ... I am waiting to hear back from my main teacher about it.

In the meanwhile I could use some way to do smoke offerings to respectfully offer Dharma texts. Obviously an ordinary being like myself is not qualified to teach or to reveal terma BUT I wonder if it would be okay to compose a simple sang prayer to use for burning offerings... Something sutra level without things like self visualization etc... That is getting a little ambitious maybe... Best option would be if there is already some kind of sang practice that is okay for me to do


KN
Soma999
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by Soma999 »

Pema Chopel gives traditional and accurate advice based upon tradition.

I just give you my experience. I did not follow a traditional approach, and i am not orthodox, but hetherodox.

For exemple i practiced chod without anything : no tools, no lung, no wang... still something responded. I had some interesting experiences.

Then i took different lung and kept practicing, and finally added the wang.

I highly value those transmissions. But there are other kind of transmissions.

The point is : it worked without lung, with lung, and with wang.

If you have boddicitta and practice sincerly, holding the intent to connect to higher, wiser beings, and are sincere, you may receive certain things.

That being said, everyone is different. What is good for one may be dangerous for another one and vice versa.

Someone i knew, with a good level in martial arts, did a specific practice, and someone said « you can’t do it, you don’t have this grade. »

I find that so funny. He was already « empowered ». He just didn’t have the diploma.

Why can’t people stop acting as spiritual policeman ?

Well just my two cents...

Follow what your teacher say is the best advice. I am a student like you.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

karmanyingpo wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:38 pm
Soma999 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:19 pm I did sang offerings before lung, and after lung.

I felt it works both before and after.
But Pema Chophel la, who as I understand is a teacher, says lung is needed for this sang. So perhaps for this one it is best not to do it without lung? Do you know of a sang practice that can be done without transmission?

I have lung for riwo sangcho but don't want to ruin the practice so ... I am waiting to hear back from my main teacher about it.

In the meanwhile I could use some way to do smoke offerings to respectfully offer Dharma texts. Obviously an ordinary being like myself is not qualified to teach or to reveal terma BUT I wonder if it would be okay to compose a simple sang prayer to use for burning offerings... Something sutra level without things like self visualization etc... That is getting a little ambitious maybe... Best option would be if there is already some kind of sang practice that is okay for me to do


KN
I probably would not do it. If you want to create smoke, then you can offer the incense to the three jewels with om ah hung and aspiration for it to benefit all beings, cleanse all pollution, etc. Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche gave a similar advice on offering lamps. That you should think you offer it to the three jewels and may it dispell the darkness of all beings, etc. So no need to go complicated.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
karmanyingpo
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by karmanyingpo »

Soma999 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:17 pm Pema Chopel gives traditional and accurate advice based upon tradition.

I just give you my experience. I did not follow a traditional approach, and i am not orthodox, but hetherodox.

For exemple i practiced chod without anything : no tools, no lung, no wang... still something responded. I had some interesting experiences.

Then i took different lung and kept practicing, and finally added the wang.

I highly value those transmissions. But there are other kind of transmissions.

The point is : it worked without lung, with lung, and with wang.

If you have boddicitta and practice sincerly, holding the intent to connect to higher, wiser beings, and are sincere, you may receive certain things.

That being said, everyone is different. What is good for one may be dangerous for another one and vice versa.

Someone i knew, with a good level in martial arts, did a specific practice, and someone said « you can’t do it, you don’t have this grade. »

I find that so funny. He was already « empowered ». He just didn’t have the diploma.

Why can’t people stop acting as spiritual policeman ?

Well just my two cents...

Follow what your teacher say is the best advice. I am a student like you.
Soma, I am sorry if I disturbed you with my comment. If you look closely, you'll find that I never gave you any commands to do or not do anything so I am not sure that the spiritual policeman idea is quite correct here. I simply expressed reservation due to advice from a qualified teacher and asked if there were any open or non lung requiring sang practices out there. I don't think it is bad or wrong in any way to ask that kind of question and I think that is quiet different from acting as a policeman.

Yes bodhichitta is a very crucial motivation and many beautiful wonderful things can come out of that no doubt. And there is no one size fits all you are right.

KN
Soma999
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by Soma999 »

I was not talking about you. I am not angry. Just a general comment.

I find you very respectful.

The idea to offer to the three Jewels and make aspiration « may it benefits... » seems very good.

Less simple is not less powerful. The more you align your frequency with boddicitta, the more powerful your practice will become. Its efficiency does not depends on sophistication, but what you put in it.
karmanyingpo
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by karmanyingpo »

Soma999 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:19 am I was not talking about you. I am not angry. Just a general comment.

I find you very respectful.

The idea to offer to the three Jewels and make aspiration « may it benefits... » seems very good.

Less simple is not less powerful. The more you align your frequency with boddicitta, the more powerful your practice will become. Its efficiency does not depends on sophistication, but what you put in it.
Thank you Soma. I agree. As practice deepens it often becomes simpler in a way

KN
PeterC
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by PeterC »

Soma999 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:17 pm
The point is : it worked without lung, with lung, and with wang.
and you know that how?
Soma999
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by Soma999 »

By the inner experiences, and the results in onés life.

How do you know you have really been initiated during an empowerment ?
PeterC
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by PeterC »

Soma999 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:37 am By the inner experiences, and the results in onés life.

How do you know you have really been initiated during an empowerment ?
You’ve missed my point
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

I mean, isn't "respecting the lineage" by not doing things without transmission or empowerment (or at the very least throught being allowed by your teacher) like Vajrayana 101? There is a plethora of teachings that can be meditated upon without it, from metta and shamatha to sutra recitation, etc. No need to invent anything, the vehicle is already present, so why make your own rollerskates to travel on the highway? Or even worse simply walk onto the highway with only the stirring wheel thinking you have the car.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
Varis
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by Varis »

Soma999 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:17 pm Why can’t people stop acting as spiritual policeman ?

Well just my two cents...

Follow what your teacher say is the best advice. I am a student like you.
People pointing out that you're doing things willy nilly based on feeling and not tradition is not spiritual policing.
You can act as New Agey as you desire, but if you're going to offer it as advice to other people expect others to criticize said advice.

I don't know of any realized masters who decided to do practices as they desired without initiation or instruction from a guru because it goes completely against fundamental principles of Vajrayana. There is no Vajrayana without empowerment, a guru, and their instructions. Period.
Malcolm
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Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no

Post by Malcolm »

Soma999 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:37 am By the inner experiences, and the results in onés life.

How do you know you have really been initiated during an empowerment ?
If you understood the instructions, followed the recitations after the master, and genuinely made effort to follow the visualizations, then you received it.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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