Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

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Padmist
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Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Padmist »

Greetings, could you please share some resources for learning classical Tibetan language for someone who wants to be able to read classical Tibetan texts?
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Ayu
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Ayu »

I believe you're on the straight way to overwhelming yourself.
How about starting at the beginning?
Learning Tibetan is no short-term task. Most people need ten years of hard work.
Padmist
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Padmist »

Yes, it's more of a lifetime thing for me. One character a day.
Arnoud
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Arnoud »

https://ryi.org/courses/ol-ta-the-tibetan-alphabet

Yeah, don't burn out. Slow and steady wins the race.
GrapeLover
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by GrapeLover »

I’ve seen this course recommended; it could be a good start though it’s not really for learning Classical Tibetan

https://samyeinstitute.org/course/tibet ... titioners/
Terma
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Terma »

Rangjung Yeshe Institute has several courses, including a few basic ones that can be done at your own pace online.

I have had similar aspirations, and although I pick it up every so often I feel for myself that my limited time is much better spent either studying texts or practicing. We are fortunate to have some excellent translators here in the West that have done a lot of that work for us.

Good luck.
Archie2009
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Archie2009 »

Ayu wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:32 pm I believe you're on the straight way to overwhelming yourself.
How about starting at the beginning?
Learning Tibetan is no short-term task. Most people need ten years of hard work.
Still, at the start, isn't some concentrated effort to get a grip of the basics the best strategy? Without this the feeling of being overwhelmed might never leave. A casual approach to learning a language that is so different to European languages could lead nowhere.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by SilenceMonkey »

If it's a life-time thing, I would learn spoken tibetan first. Learn spoken tibetan for a year, then you can have a geshe or khenpo explain the texts to you in Tibetan. It's much deeper and much more authentic this way.

And it's not much of a leap from spoken tibetan to reading texts, as a lot of the grammar in classical texts you would have already learned in spoken tibetan.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Ayu wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:32 pm I believe you're on the straight way to overwhelming yourself.
How about starting at the beginning?
Learning Tibetan is no short-term task. Most people need ten years of hard work.
I've heard people can become decent translators or interpreters after five.
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Hazel
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Hazel »

Archie2009 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:52 pm
Ayu wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:32 pm I believe you're on the straight way to overwhelming yourself.
How about starting at the beginning?
Learning Tibetan is no short-term task. Most people need ten years of hard work.
Still, at the start, isn't some concentrated effort to get a grip of the basics the best strategy? Without this the feeling of being overwhelmed might never leave. A casual approach to learning a language that is so different to European languages could lead nowhere.
I agree with Ayu based on my attempt to learn Tibetan. It's easy to get unreasonable expectations from language learning youtube channels which are like "learn a language in 6 months" and then to apply yourself and get super frustrated when you see little to no results for how much effort you put in.

A large push is also counter to long term learning. Frequent small pushes are much better.

You can find teachers based in Dharamshala and elsewhere that will give lessons over the internet for both colloquial and classical.
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Ayu
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Ayu »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:06 pm
Ayu wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:32 pm I believe you're on the straight way to overwhelming yourself.
How about starting at the beginning?
Learning Tibetan is no short-term task. Most people need ten years of hard work.
I've heard people can become decent translators or interpreters after five.
Yes, I'm sure, it depends. I know some who stopped learning after two years, because they still could neither speak nor understand much.
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Hazel
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Hazel »

As a counter argument to what I said, if you can ride the momentary "high" of interest and learn the alphabet and pronunciation system, you will have long term benefits even if you drop the language. Being able to pronounce Tibetan is beneficial as a Tibetan Buddhism practitioner.

Keep in mind there are many dialects of "proper" pronunciation. In the US, there's a centricity around one such dialect in teaching literature, but it isn't representative of the Tibetan people at large, despite what some scholars have historically claimed. In the end though, you just need to learn something and the resources you have access to are the best resources.

Honestly though, any amount of learning of any language has long term benefits. You see the world differently.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Ayu wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:51 pm
SilenceMonkey wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:06 pm
Ayu wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:32 pm I believe you're on the straight way to overwhelming yourself.
How about starting at the beginning?
Learning Tibetan is no short-term task. Most people need ten years of hard work.
I've heard people can become decent translators or interpreters after five.
Yes, I'm sure, it depends. I know some who stopped learning after two years, because they still could neither speak nor understand much.
You know... there is not much institutional support for learning tibetan well. Outside of academia in the west, you have three schools in Dharamsala (Lotsawa Rinchen Zangpo Translator Program, Sarah College, The Tibetan Library of Works and Archives -- there are serious issues with the latter two) and Rangjung Yeshe. As someone who spent some years studying both chinese and tibetan, I can tell you that the resources for learning tibetan are sparse. There are maybe 2 solid textbooks that I know of for spoken tibetan, and I've seen nearly all of them. Some other good manuals are floating around here and there, but are hard to find because they're not in wide circulation! I couldn't tell you why. Maybe the publishers couldn't get it together.

There's a lot more money in learning other languages and almost none in Tibetan language, comparatively speaking. The Tibetan library seems to be the center of tibetan language learning in the world, especially when it comes to publishing textbook materials... But nearly always, their textbooks are written by Tibetans with strange and often ineffectual notions of pedagogy.

Most people learning tibetan sort of do so on their own, dilly dallying around at the Tibetan library or with an online class here or there. And because they don't have a good structure for their studies, a good teacher, good language partners and a good attitude and discipline... well, it's hard.

When I was in Taiwan, somehow there was no good tibetan language course there. Zero. Recently, 84000 is starting a program in Taiwan to train translators... but often programs have a lot of difficulty in the beginning years. Lotsawa sounds like it was a complete disaster until only 5 years ago. But now, I think it might be better than Rangjung Yeshe... so that's impermanence for you.

Who knows where we'll be with this in the next five or ten years. 84,000's push to train the next generation of western translators and dharma teachers is so admirable!
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Ayu
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Ayu »

I don't want to come across as being against learning Tibetan in general. Learning languages is a beneficial activity even if you don't proceed well. It is widening people's horizon definitely regarding a better understanding of other cultures and diversity.

I was just appealing to a complete newbie to focus on relevant things for beginners.
Just lately I met an enthusiastic newbie online (elsewhere) who left Buddhadharma because of being overwhelmed. They tried to learn and understand everything at once. Especially they tried to follow every advice in order to please everybody. A young person.
They proceeded towards confusion quickly and they released this pressure by leaving.
I think, such a development can be avoided by taking small steps in buddhist education.
drodul
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by drodul »

What Ayu says is very sensible. Here is info on a free program you can join this month by Zoom to get an idea of what you would be undertaking when you set our to learn Tibetan. Go to : http://www.tibetanlanguage.org/Virtual_Intro.htm (but the format has been changed from conference call to Zoom meeting.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Register to learn more about Tibet and Tibetan


The Tibetan Language Institute invites you to join:
INTRODUCTION TO TIBETAN
FREE ONE-HOUR LECTURE BY ZOOM WEBINAR
SATURDAY, JANUARY 23, 2021
David at Flathead Lake in Montana

WITH DAVID CURTIS

Curious about the study of Tibetan from the convenience of your own home?

Give yourself the opportunity to join a fun and free introduction to studying Tibetan with an excellent teacher.

David makes learning Tibetan easier, more meaningful and inspiring at the same time. Tibetan is a Dharma language that was perfected over many centuries by great masters, poets, writers, and scholars, motivated by compassion to create a vehicle (literary Tibetan) to bring beings to enlightenment. Learning Tibetan to that degree is excellent, but as Thrangu Rinpoche has written us at TLI, "even knowing a little Tibetan is beneficial in deepening an understanding of the Dharma."

Manjushri sword

You can learn this language. People all over the world are studying Tibetan with David and deepening their knowledge and experience of the Dharma. So if you have wondered if this kind of class is for you or if you are interested in merely learning the alphabet, check it out.

You are welcome to register for this free lecture a second time or even multiple times, if you would like. The website says that it will be a teleconference call lecture, but this has been changed to Zoom Webinar.

And please Forward this message to a friend --to dharma friends--to let them know about it. We need your help to get the word out.

Register Now

Date: Saturday, January 23, 2021

US Time: 10:00-11:00 am Pacific Time
11:00 am-12:00 Mountain Time
12:00-1:00 pm Central Time
1:00-2:00 pm Eastern Time

Toronto, Canada Time: 1 pm Saturday
London Time: 6 pm GMT Saturday
Johannesburg, South Afria Time: 8 pm Saturday
Sydney, Australia Time: 5 am Sunday, January 24

Cost: Free

Required Materials: Free: Any necessary materials will be sent to you by email attachment before the class.

Outside the US? The Zoom platform allows those outside the US to participate!

Instructor: David Curtis was given the title Lama upon completion of the traditional three-year retreat under H.E. Kalu Rinpoche in 1992 and founded the Tibetan Language Institute in 1996. He has an academic background in classical languages and taught Tibetan to hundreds of Western students for 28 years. He combines his linguistic skills with a practitioner's knowledge of Tibetan Buddhism.

Once registered, students will be sent the Zoom webinar link a few days before the class.
Space will be given to those registering first.

All you need to do to join the lecture on January 23:


(1) Fill out the registration form.

(2) You will be sent any handouts that you need for this course by email attachment.

3) Connect via Zoom webinar link on January 23 at your designated time.

4 LETTERS TIBETAN ALPHABET

Three Courses This Winter by Distance Learning
Can't make the class? All classes are available by recording for 1 month from the date of the class.
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yagmort
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by yagmort »

honestly i don't think any courses are needed.
just a decent textbook will suffice for familiarising one self with the language at comfortable pace.
people recommend manual of standard tibet by Tournadre or heart if tibetan language by Oertle. there are some others of course which are strictly about literary classic tibetan, but imho for a beginner the more comprehensible the better.
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Hazel
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Hazel »

yagmort wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:20 pm honestly i don't think any courses are needed.
just a decent textbook will suffice for familiarising one self with the language at comfortable pace.
people recommend manual of standard tibet by Tournadre or heart if tibetan language by Oertle. there are some others of course which are strictly about literary classic tibetan, but imho for a beginner the more comprehensible the better.
Self-study is not for everyone. People have different ways they learn. If this IS in fact how the OP learns, for classical Tibetan I have seen "Translating Buddhism from Tibetan" recommended. I own that and Manual of Standard Tibetan (which is colloquial Tibetan, I forget if it's literary or spoken though).

There are also many YouTube videos to augment learning.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

What do you see when you turn out the lights?
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Hazel
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by Hazel »

It can SEEM like there's not many resources out there because non of it is as flashy and "modern" seeming as resources for a popular language like Japanese (the other language journey I've been on), but there's actually a lot out there if you lower expectations.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

What do you see when you turn out the lights?
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Ayu wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:04 am I don't want to come across as being against learning Tibetan in general. Learning languages is a beneficial activity even if you don't proceed well. It is widening people's horizon definitely regarding a better understanding of other cultures and diversity.

I was just appealing to a complete newbie to focus on relevant things for beginners.
Just lately I met an enthusiastic newbie online (elsewhere) who left Buddhadharma because of being overwhelmed. They tried to learn and understand everything at once. Especially they tried to follow every advice in order to please everybody. A young person.
They proceeded towards confusion quickly and they released this pressure by leaving.
I think, such a development can be avoided by taking small steps in buddhist education.
You know... this is very wise.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Resources for Learning Classical Tibetan Language

Post by SilenceMonkey »

On self-study... Hazel's right, it's not for everyone. Some people just don't know how to go about language study, or need a structured learning environment. It's also very difficult for some people if they're not in an environment of cultural immersion.

But some can do it! In my experience, those people tend to have discipline and focus -- perhaps from a mature Dharma practice. Or maybe they have learned a foreign language before, so they'll have a good sense of what's involved.
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