Vows, samayas and empowerment

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Könchok Thrinley
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Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Hi,

a question has been bugging me lately. If I understand it correctly one receives refuge vows, bodhisattva vows and samayas during an empowerment. So, does one have to know the vows in order to receive them and thus receive the empowerment? Or is it enough and okay to learn them later.

Sakya Pandita said:“Without taking vows, there is no empowerment, there is no initiation.”

So do we have to be aware of the vows in order to take them during an empowerment, or does reciting the lines of refuge, bodhicitta etc. after the master mean that we take the vows regardless if we know them all.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

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Charlie123
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by Charlie123 »

good question
Danny
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by Danny »

Would be great to know before hand, in that way, you are an active contributor to the empowerment, then the empowerment takes on a purposeful meaning.

In an ideal world of course. It also depends on if the one giving the empowerment gives prior instruction and teaching on what is about to go down. It’s a mutual collaborative thing.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

As long as you understand what you are getting into,
the fact that the actual ceremony itself may be recited, or transmitted (including the repetition by participants of Tibetan words you aren’t familiar with) doesn’t matter.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by Danny »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:00 am As long as you understand what you are getting into,
the fact that the actual ceremony itself may be recited, or transmitted (including the repetition by participants of Tibetan words you aren’t familiar with) doesn’t matter.
If we take, say a Kalachakra empowerment as an example. It is so complex, many people and reasonably so, really have not much idea of what’s actually going on. Even 3 full days of teachings and preparation could not fully explain kalachakra to the recipients of that empowerment. With a faithful commitment, attitude, after receiving kalachakra, to continue to work with the study and practice, gradually recognition and discovery can dawn, a deeper understanding of kalachakra can emerge, even realization.
It’s all the students work and effort, that can pay off, maybe even gain some capacity and even kalachakra’s function. Attitude goes a long way.
Just giving a hypothetical example.
Kalachakra is something that has developed over the centuries into ritually something very complicated. A basic understanding of what’s happening is something we could aim for, but not always practical at the time and circumstance.
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by Danny »

Here’s a nice little counter example..
So a teacher sends a student to a dzogchen master with a letter. The letter says, please accept this student to enter in dzogchen teachings. The student presents the letter to the dzogchen master. He suspiciously reads the letter. Looks at the student, says nothing. Then mysteriously looks at the back of the letter for quite a long time, it’s blank paper. He then stares out of a window. Again for a long time. Student is sitting, waiting, watching with high expectations and excitement.
Dzogchen master looks at student for a long time in silence, reads again at the letter, then again looks for a long time at the back of the letter, the blank side. Looks back again at the student for a long time, then again stares back out the Window for 10 minutes, without saying a word.
Student still waiting, for something....excitement and expectations are fading fast...
Anything.
Finally dzogchen master looks at student and says
Go away.

Maybe tomorrow if you are still here, you can wash this window.
Student is shooed out the door.


Any idea what is going on here??
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lelopa
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by lelopa »

Danny wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:07 am

Any idea what is going on here??
Direct Introduction :spy:
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Budai
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by Budai »

I think that there are many levels of consciousness at play during Empowerment and initiation, and though one may not fully grasp at what is going on, they may later realize they blossomed internally during the Empowerment and were fully present in a deeper subconscious way that affected their whole Being. I believe Empowerments are especially important, and one can come to High stages of realization during them, as if they are given a Gem sewed into the lining of their robe that they discover later, sometimes even many years later. It is important to hold onto and not brush off Empowerments and accept all the Metta the Great Teachers have to give us, because true Buddhist connections are never wasted. One can accept an Empowerment even after it's been received, and one can seek a deeper meaning and deeper connections to the actual moments of Empowerment because it is something Transcendental, and ultimately what is given is unlimited and priceless. :yinyang:
Last edited by Budai on Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by Ayu »

I remember Dagyab Rinpoche (Loden Sherab) telliing us: "So, tomorrow will be the empowerment... Anybody who does not intend to do the connected practice on a regular base should please stay home."

I believe the understanding of the vows grows with practice. And studying the vows before one has an understanding of the practice can rather lead to confusion. That's my feeling.

My teacher only gives vows in Tibetan without explanation. Exeption is refuge. Heexplains refuge very thoroughly. I never saw him giving a lecture about bodhisattva or tantra vows in more than ten years. I guess, he is completely confident, that we will understand and follow the vows later.
He learned that Gemans are obsessed with rules. They will find out about them by themselves for sure. If he would emphasize too much on vows, some people would only develop a disorder instead of following the path.
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by kirtu »

There are several books that explain the tantric vows.

But in general, most lamas tell you explicitly what they would like you to do as a minimum to keep samaya. Usually this is generating compassion and Bodhicitta (the intention or firm commitment to attain Enlightenment in order to liberate all beings from samsara).

The Treasury of Knowledge, Book Five Buddhist Ethics by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Taye

Tantric Ethics, An Explanation of the Precepts for Buddhist Varjayana Practice by Tsongkhapa
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
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yagmort
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by yagmort »

Danny wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:07 am ...So a teacher sends a student to a dzogchen master with a letter...
hilarious story, where is it from?
stay open, spread love
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by heart »

kirtu wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:00 pm There are several books that explain the tantric vows.

But in general, most lamas tell you explicitly what they would like you to do as a minimum to keep samaya. Usually this is generating compassion and Bodhicitta (the intention or firm commitment to attain Enlightenment in order to liberate all beings from samsara).

The Treasury of Knowledge, Book Five Buddhist Ethics by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Taye

Tantric Ethics, An Explanation of the Precepts for Buddhist Varjayana Practice by Tsongkhapa
This is the best book: Perfect Conduct: Ascertaining the Three Vows

At least from a Nyingma perspective.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
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"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by kirtu »

heart wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:29 pm
kirtu wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:00 pm There are several books that explain the tantric vows.

But in general, most lamas tell you explicitly what they would like you to do as a minimum to keep samaya. Usually this is generating compassion and Bodhicitta (the intention or firm commitment to attain Enlightenment in order to liberate all beings from samsara).

The Treasury of Knowledge, Book Five Buddhist Ethics by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Taye

Tantric Ethics, An Explanation of the Precepts for Buddhist Varjayana Practice by Tsongkhapa
This is the best book: Perfect Conduct: Ascertaining the Three Vows

At least from a Nyingma perspective.

/magnus
Thanks! I forgot about that one.

At any rate, while Tibetan literature is said to be replete with Three Vows literature (according to Jamgon Kongtrul - that's one reason he wrote his Encyclopedia after being asked to write a Three Vows text), we have had many different examples of Three Vows material in the West now for some forty years (although it appears that most of it appeared over the past 20-30 years).

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
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明安 Myoan
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Re: Vows, samayas and empowerment

Post by 明安 Myoan »

I think if you have the opportunity and a positive aspiration, it will benefit you.
It involves not only our limitations, but also the skillful activity of incomparably wise and compassionate beings.
Namu Amida Butsu
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