Question Regarding Samaya Pollution

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AJP
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Re: Question Regarding Samaya Pollution

Post by AJP »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:28 pm
Danny wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:54 am Maybe this is simplistic, but if one is engaging in refuge, bodhichitta in nice honest way, practitioner maintain even mind, where this type of issue arises?
this issues arise from one's own defects.
On this path we are taking on all of our Karma so we need strength and also help from teachers. Some Karma can be very powerful.
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Question Regarding Samaya Pollution

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

AJP wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:48 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:28 pm
Danny wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:54 am Maybe this is simplistic, but if one is engaging in refuge, bodhichitta in nice honest way, practitioner maintain even mind, where this type of issue arises?
this issues arise from one's own defects.
On this path we are taking on all of our Karma so we need strength and also help from teachers. Some Karma can be very powerful.
i think yes of course! ¿who else but one's guru would look upon us even after -one- make a transgression?¿who will be there?
AJP
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Re: Question Regarding Samaya Pollution

Post by AJP »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:13 pm
AJP wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:48 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:28 pm

this issues arise from one's own defects.
On this path we are taking on all of our Karma so we need strength and also help from teachers. Some Karma can be very powerful.
i think yes of course! ¿who else but one's guru would look upon us even after -one- make a transgression?¿who will be there?
Also Vajra Siblings can help each other the Samaya they share is very important if they have that 😊
Cinnabar
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Re: Question Regarding Samaya Pollution

Post by Cinnabar »

Isn’t this a slow underhand pitch regarding samaya?

I mean, let’s be real. We’re all samaya corruptors. Just one instant of not holding phenomena as primordially pure and one has broken one’s samaya. The way you describe it, it is hard to be a samaya corruptor. I’ve probably met maybe one or two people who came to hate their guru and siblings. And that’s in a lot of years. But we’re still breaking our samaya all the time. Even Atisha said this. He was always corrupting his samaya by breaking the tantric vows, and then confessing and purifying.
Malcolm wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:57 pm
Tenma wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:17 pm So, I’ve been noticing people here being concerned about not using things used by samaya breakers and some texts explicitly stating to not drink the same water from them. I wanted to ask, if someone is a samaya breaker, does that mean that they will pollute whatever environments and objects they encounter? With people who aren’t even Buddhists or those who aren’t aware that such a person is a samaya breaker, what affect does this “pollution” have, if any? How is it that whatever a person such as a samaya breaker does must be avoided as though it’s harmful? Why avoid them? Aren’t they sentient beings? This entire idea of not associating with “breakers”/“deserters” sounds awfully like a cult, especially the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I shun samaya breakers, you should too. A samaya breaker is someone who hates their guru, hates their vajra siblings, lacks bodhicitta, etc. We also have a samaya to avoid such people.
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Aryjna
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Re: Question Regarding Samaya Pollution

Post by Aryjna »

Cinnabar wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:17 am Isn’t this a slow underhand pitch regarding samaya?

I mean, let’s be real. We’re all samaya corruptors. Just one instant of not holding phenomena as primordially pure and one has broken one’s samaya. The way you describe it, it is hard to be a samaya corruptor. I’ve probably met maybe one or two people who came to hate their guru and siblings. And that’s in a lot of years. But we’re still breaking our samaya all the time. Even Atisha said this. He was always corrupting his samaya by breaking the tantric vows, and then confessing and purifying.
Malcolm wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:57 pm
Tenma wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:17 pm So, I’ve been noticing people here being concerned about not using things used by samaya breakers and some texts explicitly stating to not drink the same water from them. I wanted to ask, if someone is a samaya breaker, does that mean that they will pollute whatever environments and objects they encounter? With people who aren’t even Buddhists or those who aren’t aware that such a person is a samaya breaker, what affect does this “pollution” have, if any? How is it that whatever a person such as a samaya breaker does must be avoided as though it’s harmful? Why avoid them? Aren’t they sentient beings? This entire idea of not associating with “breakers”/“deserters” sounds awfully like a cult, especially the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I shun samaya breakers, you should too. A samaya breaker is someone who hates their guru, hates their vajra siblings, lacks bodhicitta, etc. We also have a samaya to avoid such people.
It is quite clear that the term refers to people who do it intentionally. So, we are not all samaya breakers, any more than we are murderers for having stepped on insects by mistake. It is also a matter of degree.
Malcolm
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Re: Question Regarding Samaya Pollution

Post by Malcolm »

Cinnabar wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:17 am I mean, let’s be real. We’re all samaya corruptors. Just one instant of not holding phenomena as primordially pure and one has broken one’s samaya.
There is s difference between being unable to maintain pure vision, which is an issue of capacity, and deliberately ignoring and transgressing samaya.
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