105 Bead Mala?
105 Bead Mala?
Someone just gave me what seems to be a mala with 105 beads (13 x 7 and 14 spacer beads), rather than 108. I did a web search and found that there were some 105 bead malas for sale. I was thinking that 105 is 5 x 21, and often it is said to chant a mantra 21x. Actually I'd always figured that maybe the 108 bead was 5 x 21 + 3 (for the Three Jewels), well, that's just my theory, maybe it's just something from Indian tradition.
Anyway, does anyone know anything about 105 bead malas? Can I use it to recite mantra? Is it common in Tibet?
Anyway, does anyone know anything about 105 bead malas? Can I use it to recite mantra? Is it common in Tibet?
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Re: 105 Bead Mala?
it depends on the tradition.
in general is 100 + x, where x is extra beads for extra reciting and so correct one's mistakes on the 100's. again, this is very general.
in general is 100 + x, where x is extra beads for extra reciting and so correct one's mistakes on the 100's. again, this is very general.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
I'm not sure that Javier is quite correct, though to be sure it varies a little. 108 is not just 100 plus a few for good measure, but is precisely a time-honoured sacred number.
I heard somewhere that Sakyas often use 111 beads, construed as the "sacred" 108 plus 3 for good measure. Sakya followers here may perhaps confirm.
So to Shankara, my advice would be no - unless you have been instructed otherwise, perhaps in connection with some specific practice, get hold of a 108 bead mala, preferably new to avoid complications with somebody else's "vibe" on it. Your mala may be a simple thing, it may be inexpensive, but it is very intimate. And 108 is the number almost every practitioner before you has used.
Fwiw
I heard somewhere that Sakyas often use 111 beads, construed as the "sacred" 108 plus 3 for good measure. Sakya followers here may perhaps confirm.
So to Shankara, my advice would be no - unless you have been instructed otherwise, perhaps in connection with some specific practice, get hold of a 108 bead mala, preferably new to avoid complications with somebody else's "vibe" on it. Your mala may be a simple thing, it may be inexpensive, but it is very intimate. And 108 is the number almost every practitioner before you has used.
Fwiw
All best wishes
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
It seems to be 12 X 9....
A Lama said "use no more than 12 spacer beads"
Don't know who it was but I found it in the www.
It was a teaching about malas in general
A Lama said "use no more than 12 spacer beads"
Don't know who it was but I found it in the www.
It was a teaching about malas in general
Lost In Transmission
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Re: 105 Bead Mala?
108 is a very useful number for counted sets of nearly anything, since it is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 6, 9 and 12 (and 18, 27, 36 or 54 if that's useful). Perhaps that's part of the reason it became so widely used.
The only number which compares with it for divisibility is 60, divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10 and 12.
Kim
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
Yeah I've got my trusty old 108 bead mala which is soon going to need restringing. I always figured that there was something about 108, seeing as the Hindus chant on 108 bead "japa" too.Lingpupa wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:59 am I'm not sure that Javier is quite correct, though to be sure it varies a little. 108 is not just 100 plus a few for good measure, but is precisely a time-honoured sacred number.
I heard somewhere that Sakyas often use 111 beads, construed as the "sacred" 108 plus 3 for good measure. Sakya followers here may perhaps confirm.
So to Shankara, my advice would be no - unless you have been instructed otherwise, perhaps in connection with some specific practice, get hold of a 108 bead mala, preferably new to avoid complications with somebody else's "vibe" on it. Your mala may be a simple thing, it may be inexpensive, but it is very intimate. And 108 is the number almost every practitioner before you has used.
Fwiw
I always found this fascinating as well, I often find myself calculating the fractions of mantras I've chanted, when I'm getting to a third or whatever of the total number of mantras. Also if you subtract three (the Three Jewels in Buddhism, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva in other traditions) it divides by 5 as well.Kim O'Hara wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:42 am108 is a very useful number for counted sets of nearly anything, since it is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 6, 9 and 12 (and 18, 27, 36 or 54 if that's useful). Perhaps that's part of the reason it became so widely used.
The only number which compares with it for divisibility is 60, divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10 and 12.
Kim
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Re: 105 Bead Mala?
The 111 is not just Sakyas. I've heard you have the standard 108, then 3 extra beads, one every 27 beads, for the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha, and then there is the big guru bead where the threads come out (which is where you turn around and go the other way so you never count it or go over it) -- so it's actually 112 beads but you're only counting 111, which actually counts as 100 for accumulations. All my malas are been like this and I'm in the Kagyu/Nygima tradition.Lingpupa wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:59 am I'm not sure that Javier is quite correct, though to be sure it varies a little. 108 is not just 100 plus a few for good measure, but is precisely a time-honoured sacred number.
I heard somewhere that Sakyas often use 111 beads, construed as the "sacred" 108 plus 3 for good measure. Sakya followers here may perhaps confirm.
So to Shankara, my advice would be no - unless you have been instructed otherwise, perhaps in connection with some specific practice, get hold of a 108 bead mala, preferably new to avoid complications with somebody else's "vibe" on it. Your mala may be a simple thing, it may be inexpensive, but it is very intimate. And 108 is the number almost every practitioner before you has used.
Fwiw
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Re: 105 Bead Mala?
Never heard of a 105 bead mala in Tibetan Buddhism. 108 is the usual number. However, my original Nyingma Teachers said to use 111. As for spacers, those Teachers said one can use a maximum of four sets of three beads. My Dudjom Tersar Teacher said a maximum of three sets of three beads.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
To go a little further, I have been taught that it is best if the guru bead is white, then a red bead below, and finally a blue bead below that one (where the mala is tied), which represents the 3 kayas.Jangchup Donden wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:40 pmThe 111 is not just Sakyas. I've heard you have the standard 108, then 3 extra beads, one every 27 beads, for the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha, and then there is the big guru bead where the threads come out (which is where you turn around and go the other way so you never count it or go over it) -- so it's actually 112 beads but you're only counting 111, which actually counts as 100 for accumulations. All my malas are been like this and I'm in the Kagyu/Nygima tradition.Lingpupa wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:59 am I'm not sure that Javier is quite correct, though to be sure it varies a little. 108 is not just 100 plus a few for good measure, but is precisely a time-honoured sacred number.
I heard somewhere that Sakyas often use 111 beads, construed as the "sacred" 108 plus 3 for good measure. Sakya followers here may perhaps confirm.
So to Shankara, my advice would be no - unless you have been instructed otherwise, perhaps in connection with some specific practice, get hold of a 108 bead mala, preferably new to avoid complications with somebody else's "vibe" on it. Your mala may be a simple thing, it may be inexpensive, but it is very intimate. And 108 is the number almost every practitioner before you has used.
Fwiw
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
it's just missing beads. it's not that uncommon for a mala to be several beads short. i have personally seen it enough to advise every one to count a mala a few times before buying one, at least if we talk about nepal/india.
stay open, spread love
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
Is there an indian source of it?
I've only read this in Gelugpa teachings and have seen only very few malas of teachers of all schools
that had the 3 colors at the main-bead.
Lost In Transmission
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
https://akaracollection.com/collections/malas
This shop is run by Pakchock Rinpoches students and he is very keen on that all they sell should be as genuine as possible.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
I have gotten 2 mala's from Dharmaratna, which is from Ka-Nying Monastery. Also blessed by Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche (and Phakchok Rinpoche) and these also have the trikaya beads. Rinpoche is pretty traditional as well I would say.heart wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:10 amhttps://akaracollection.com/collections/malas
This shop is run by Pakchock Rinpoches students and he is very keen on that all they sell should be as genuine as possible.
/magnus
I think I did read about this somewhere but I will need to do a little digging.
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Re: 105 Bead Mala?
if i remember well, here one can read about.Terma wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:40 pmI have gotten 2 mala's from Dharmaratna, which is from Ka-Nying Monastery. Also blessed by Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche (and Phakchok Rinpoche) and these also have the trikaya beads. Rinpoche is pretty traditional as well I would say.heart wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:10 amhttps://akaracollection.com/collections/malas
This shop is run by Pakchock Rinpoches students and he is very keen on that all they sell should be as genuine as possible.
/magnus
I think I did read about this somewhere but I will need to do a little digging.
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDe ... ortby%3D17
i made my malas accordingly.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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Re: 105 Bead Mala?
"Is there an indian source of it?
I've only read this in Gelugpa teachings and have seen only very few malas of teachers of all schools
that had the 3 colors at the main-bead."
I remember many, many years ago my Teacher giving us a lung for a short text on malas. I believe it was by Naropa, but it's long since I remembered the name of the text, if I ever knew it. After hearing this text, I immediately restrung my mala with Tri-kaya head-beads. In 50-some years, I've only seen one or two malas with this kind of head-beads. I've even had Tibetans ask me if I needed a bumpa-type head-bead.
I've only read this in Gelugpa teachings and have seen only very few malas of teachers of all schools
that had the 3 colors at the main-bead."
I remember many, many years ago my Teacher giving us a lung for a short text on malas. I believe it was by Naropa, but it's long since I remembered the name of the text, if I ever knew it. After hearing this text, I immediately restrung my mala with Tri-kaya head-beads. In 50-some years, I've only seen one or two malas with this kind of head-beads. I've even had Tibetans ask me if I needed a bumpa-type head-bead.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
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Re: 105 Bead Mala?
My teachers tell us to use 111 beads, and we're Nyingma/Kagyu (and primarily Nyingma). Although we have a little Gelug and Sakya mixed in as well.Lingpupa wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:59 am I'm not sure that Javier is quite correct, though to be sure it varies a little. 108 is not just 100 plus a few for good measure, but is precisely a time-honoured sacred number.
I heard somewhere that Sakyas often use 111 beads, construed as the "sacred" 108 plus 3 for good measure. Sakya followers here may perhaps confirm.
So to Shankara, my advice would be no - unless you have been instructed otherwise, perhaps in connection with some specific practice, get hold of a 108 bead mala, preferably new to avoid complications with somebody else's "vibe" on it. Your mala may be a simple thing, it may be inexpensive, but it is very intimate. And 108 is the number almost every practitioner before you has used.
Fwiw
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
This is from the very short book called "Garland of Advice", by Zurmang Gharwang Rinpoche. Mine is a Kindle edition so page number may differ.
He says:
"Your mala must have 108 beads. If possible, the head of the mala should have three different levels: blue on top, red in the middle, and white on the bottom, representing the body, speech, and mind of the deities."
This is a useful little guide on mala use, with sources from various tantras, as well as Guru Rinpoche.
Hope this helps to clarify.
He says:
"Your mala must have 108 beads. If possible, the head of the mala should have three different levels: blue on top, red in the middle, and white on the bottom, representing the body, speech, and mind of the deities."
This is a useful little guide on mala use, with sources from various tantras, as well as Guru Rinpoche.
Hope this helps to clarify.
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
I am not able to find an Indian source... except Termas.
I don't know any Tantra, or commentaries which mention Mala-designs....
Lost In Transmission
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Re: 105 Bead Mala?
i suppose that Samputa Tantra is the source of GP teachings on this, but i cannot check
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: 105 Bead Mala?
I have a copy somewhere of Samputa Tantra, I don’t recall from my bad memory about mentioning this type of system on malas, but of conduct in general.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:37 ami suppose that Samputa Tantra is the source of GP teachings on this, but i cannot check :(
To my mind there are a few mentions in the Deity,Mantra and Wisdom (Highly recommend read) about, warmth of the body, which wrist, not putting on ground etc when handling ones mala, there may even be types of seeds to use, what type for wrathful or peaceful and so forth, bodhi tree seeds the best etc. what to do if mala string breaks, rituals etc. but in all honesty, the important thing is the quality of mantra recitation (diligence, faith, devotion etc) and the amount or quantities are secondary, not to be imputed that numbers are not important, but that is a position of where one is at in terms of what we’re engaged in, lower/outer higher/inner practices, that’s the consideration and not one size fits all, considerations of generating and accumulating the required number of mantras etc.
Not heard or seen of a mala with 105. Sounds sketchy and a bit “took” if you know what I mean.