gektor colors and ornaments

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javier.espinoza.t
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gektor colors and ornaments

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

is it better if gektor have certain color and/or ornament? i'm using this oftend so maybe i can improove my oat's flour gektor.
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:57 am is it better if gektor have certain color and/or ornament? i'm using this oftend so maybe i can improove my oat's flour gektor.
just asnwered: red, flower.
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by heart »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:52 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:57 am is it better if gektor have certain color and/or ornament? i'm using this oftend so maybe i can improove my oat's flour gektor.
just asnwered: red, flower.
There is more to it than that:

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

heart wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:48 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:52 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:57 am is it better if gektor have certain color and/or ornament? i'm using this oftend so maybe i can improove my oat's flour gektor.
just asnwered: red, flower.
There is more to it than that:

/magnus
i just saw it. thanks a lot magnus, 27:50 for gektor.
pemachophel
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by pemachophel »

Different terma cycles have different shaped and ornamented gektors. So you should use the one from the terma cycle you are practicing (unless your Teacher has a specific style and always uses that one style).

IME. this is the kind of thing that needs to be learned from your Teacher directly.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

pemachophel wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:52 pm Different terma cycles have different shaped and ornamented gektors. So you should use the one from the terma cycle you are practicing (unless your Teacher has a specific style and always uses that one style).

IME. this is the kind of thing that needs to be learned from your Teacher directly.
never received such instructions but have just a few seconds of gektor example in a video. the practice is a a changchog extension composed by my teache tahe we use in the shitro from mingyur dorje we -idc- do, very concise.

the example is quite simple and similar to the one made by Lama Tarchin in the video that Magnus posted.

i think maybe i could improove the effect if something a bit more elaborate is used. would be?
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by pemachophel »

Looking at the video, Lama Tharchin's gektor is one of numerous variations (that I have seen) on this general idea.

If one doesn't know how to make a specific torma, one can always use a cookie or small cake or even just a small plate or bowl of rice. It is the visualization that is most important.

As an extension of that last thought, each element of the torma has a meaning or represents something. For instance, the chang-bu around the base represents a spinal column, while the small lamp is a knuckle bone filled with human fat. Ideally, one should know these meanings and not just copy the shapes. Unfrotunately these days, it seems like so much of the Vajrayana Dharma is being lost.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
Danny
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by Danny »

pemachophel wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:47 pm Unfrotunately these days, it seems like so much of the Vajrayana Dharma is being lost.
It goes in cycles. With great Karma comes great Mara. Or whatever is brought together, also falls apart.
Folky wisdom lol
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

pemachophel wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:47 pm Looking at the video, Lama Tharchin's gektor is one of numerous variations (that I have seen) on this general idea.

If one doesn't know how to make a specific torma, one can always use a cookie or small cake or even just a small plate or bowl of rice. It is the visualization that is most important.

As an extension of that last thought, each element of the torma has a meaning or represents something. For instance, the chang-bu around the base represents a spinal column, while the small lamp is a knuckle bone filled with human fat. Ideally, one should know these meanings and not just copy the shapes. Unfrotunately these days, it seems like so much of the Vajrayana Dharma is being lost.
but lama pema, why is then that one can use a cookie or a muffin or a banana, etc., but can't make a little bit different doug form of gektor? i really wonder.

however, i have the precise form that my teacher used in the changchog rite, and i will use that, is really similar to the one showed by Lama Tarchin. I think i had good luck seeing both versions, i think i learned something very useful.
Danny
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by Danny »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:11 am

however, i have the precise form that my teacher used in the changchog rite, and i will use that, is really similar to the one showed by Lama Tarchin. I think i had good luck seeing both versions, i think i learned something very useful.
Did that come with the burning of the names? I mean I can dig through my stuff and answer myself, but if you can remind me would be great.
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

Danny wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:32 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:11 am

however, i have the precise form that my teacher used in the changchog rite, and i will use that, is really similar to the one showed by Lama Tarchin. I think i had good luck seeing both versions, i think i learned something very useful.
Did that come with the burning of the names? I mean I can dig through my stuff and answer myself, but if you can remind me would be great.
no. gektor offer is in the beginning.
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by Danny »

Ok yes, namcho shitro with changchog etc.
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

Danny wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:38 am Ok yes, namcho shitro with changchog etc.
yes. you practice this? is very nice, and useful!
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by Danny »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:09 am
Danny wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:38 am Ok yes, namcho shitro with changchog etc.
yes. you practice this? is very nice, and useful!
Only that one time with Rinpoche as a collective practice. Still was very generous of Rinpoche to condense that practice down to its essence.
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by pemachophel »

"but lama pema, why is then that one can use a cookie or a muffin or a banana, etc., but can't make a little bit different doug form of gektor? i really wonder."

Excellent question. When we use a cookie or a muffin, it's an expedient means. However, when we are actually making torma, then we need to make them either how our Teacher taught us or how they are done in that particular tradition. We should not change tormas, chanting tunes, etc.; otherwise the tradition will become entirely corrupted in a short time. In Vajrayana, lineage is incredibly important, and that includes lineage of tormas, etc. Further, when we do it as correctly as possible, to the best of our abilities, we can be sure it will work "as advertised." When we start modifiying and changing things around to suit ourselves (emphasis on the word "self"), then we no longer have that assurance.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

pemachophel wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:11 pm "but lama pema, why is then that one can use a cookie or a muffin or a banana, etc., but can't make a little bit different doug form of gektor? i really wonder."

Excellent question. When we use a cookie or a muffin, it's an expedient means. However, when we are actually making torma, then we need to make them either how our Teacher taught us or how they are done in that particular tradition. We should not change tormas, chanting tunes, etc.; otherwise the tradition will become entirely corrupted in a short time. In Vajrayana, lineage is incredibly important, and that includes lineage of tormas, etc. Further, when we do it as correctly as possible, to the best of our abilities, we can be sure it will work "as advertised." When we start modifiying and changing things around to suit ourselves (emphasis on the word "self"), then we no longer have that assurance.
i see, thank you! :)
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

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Danny wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:19 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:09 am
Danny wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:38 am Ok yes, namcho shitro with changchog etc.
yes. you practice this? is very nice, and useful!
Only that one time with Rinpoche as a collective practice. Still was very generous of Rinpoche to condense that practice down to its essence.
Actually the only thing missing is the empowerment that normally is a part of chanchog.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

ok, fyi i gathered how the torma is done and how is left outside. those who do torma offering in ChNN's changchog can ask via pm.
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by pemachophel »

In all the Nyingma traditions I am familiar with, it is not "left outside: but thrown outside in an overhand manner. When carrying it out, keep it down low. Before it is offered, be sure it is not on your altar where it may be prostrated to. It should be kept down low if possible. There's a way of making a scorpion-threatening mudra with both hands while carrying the torma plate, but don't worry about that.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
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AmidaB
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Re: gektor colors and ornaments

Post by AmidaB »

pemachophel wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:47 pm Looking at the video, Lama Tharchin's gektor is one of numerous variations (that I have seen) on this general idea.

If one doesn't know how to make a specific torma, one can always use a cookie or small cake or even just a small plate or bowl of rice. It is the visualization that is most important.

As an extension of that last thought, each element of the torma has a meaning or represents something. For instance, the chang-bu around the base represents a spinal column, while the small lamp is a knuckle bone filled with human fat. Ideally, one should know these meanings and not just copy the shapes. Unfrotunately these days, it seems like so much of the Vajrayana Dharma is being lost.
Dear Lama Pema,
Could you please suggest some books or other sources on this subject. I'm nowadays especially interested in the hidden symbolism. Thanks a lot.
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