Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

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Könchok Thrinley
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Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Hey,

few days back I have started reading his book on 4 Noble truths and quite frankly I kinda like the explanation so far. And I thought about maybe getting bit more into his writings. Would you recommend reading The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma? And general question how would you rate his works in general? I don't want to discuss Trungpa himself it has been done too many times. However, his body of work is quite significant and I wonder if it is worth getting into or if there are better sources.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

Könchok Thrinley wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:15 am Hey,

few days back I have started reading his book on 4 Noble truths and quite frankly I kinda like the explanation so far. And I thought about maybe getting bit more into his writings. Would you recommend reading The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma? And general question how would you rate his works in general? I don't want to discuss Trungpa himself it has been done too many times. However, his body of work is quite significant and I wonder if it is worth getting into or if there are better sources.
i readed one book when i was 17. it made me very happy.
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by namoh »

Rinpoche’s books are unimpeachable. They can be enjoyed and learned from without any concern. I doubt I would have enjoyed being his student, but his books are unlike most.
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by tobes »

namoh wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:21 am Rinpoche’s books are unimpeachable. They can be enjoyed and learned from without any concern. I doubt I would have enjoyed being his student, but his books are unlike most.
I second this.

The one caveat is that I think that his presentation of many topics comes with its own "Trungpa flavour" which probably tastes best/works most effectively if he is/was your teacher - i.e. they were never "books", they were always direct teachings that later got published. So, the message is highly tailored to the needs of his students, and the context they share. However, many of us probably have similar needs and same'ish context.
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by Lingpupa »

Personally, and in some circles this would put me in a minority, I got some clarity and inspiration from the first three or so. After Myth of Freedom they became more and more incomprehensible, in the sense that words were being used in ways that I could not add up. I had no more wish to hope to absorb his insider vocabulary than I had to absorb the German existentialist vocabulary used by Guenther, just in the hope that it would make useful sense in the end.

So if you are drawn, go for it of course, but there is a lot of other clear, authentic material based on the teaching of sound teachers and authoritative texts available nowadays.

(You wanted an opinion!)
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

And does anybody here have an experience with the Profound Treasury?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Lingpupa wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:36 am Personally, and in some circles this would put me in a minority, I got some clarity and inspiration from the first three or so. After Myth of Freedom they became more and more incomprehensible, in the sense that words were being used in ways that I could not add up. I had no more wish to hope to absorb his insider vocabulary than I had to absorb the German existentialist vocabulary used by Guenther, just in the hope that it would make useful sense in the end.

So if you are drawn, go for it of course, but there is a lot of other clear, authentic material based on the teaching of sound teachers and authoritative texts available nowadays.

(You wanted an opinion!)
I wanted and I am really grateful. Because most of the time I feel basically the same about his writings. I couldn't finish his Myth of Freedom and other more "freestyle" books. That is why I am surprised that the 4 Noble Truths book is so readable and quite traditional.

I guess the problem for me is that I am drawn, but the doubts about the teacher might make it harder for me to take in the teachings. But at the same time 4 Noble Truths made me more contemplate suffering. So, quite a hard position to be in for me. :D
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by cky »

My intention is not to start another "Trungpa Rinpoche" controversy discussion, but the direction of some posts incline me to post a broader comment.

Trungpa Rinpoches behaviour certainly wasn't what you would except, it raised a lot of criticism, especially in the Tibetan community. He didn't hide his drinking, he didn't hide his having sex with students. The details are hard to figure out, though. Abuse of power is happening in all kinds of communities, but so is slander.

Anyway, what we -can- judge is the teachings he left behind. Lots of videos, audio teachings and books. By now, I think I can say, I saw, listened to and read most of what's publicly available.

Some of his books may be harder to understand, but to me, most of them are "on". Pure Dharma. The more I studied his teachings, the more impressed I got. Today, I'm honestly grateful and feel immense gratitude for having come across his teachings, even though I've never met him.

Maybe his style isn't for everyone? But that's always the case with Dharma teachers.
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

cky wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:24 pm My intention is not to start another "Trungpa Rinpoche" controversy discussion, but the direction of some posts incline me to post a broader comment.

Trungpa Rinpoches behaviour certainly wasn't what you would except, it raised a lot of criticism, especially in the Tibetan community. He didn't hide his drinking, he didn't hide his having sex with students. The details are hard to figure out, though. Abuse of power is happening in all kinds of communities, but so is slander.

Anyway, what we -can- judge is the teachings he left behind. Lots of videos, audio teachings and books. By now, I think I can say, I saw, listened to and read most of what's publicly available.

Some of his books may be harder to understand, but to me, most of them are "on". Pure Dharma. The more I studied his teachings, the more impressed I got. Today, I'm honestly grateful and feel immense gratitude for having come across his teachings, even though I've never met him.

Maybe his style isn't for everyone? But that's always the case with Dharma teachers.
Thanks for this comment, man. I mean it is hard sometimes to sepparate the author and the book. For me especially in his case. And sometimes a broader looks is important. :D I really just want to focus more on what is left behind than all those crazy stories.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

cky wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:24 pm My intention is not to start another "Trungpa Rinpoche" controversy discussion, but the direction of some posts incline me to post a broader comment.

Trungpa Rinpoches behaviour certainly wasn't what you would except, it raised a lot of criticism, especially in the Tibetan community. He didn't hide his drinking, he didn't hide his having sex with students. The details are hard to figure out, though. Abuse of power is happening in all kinds of communities, but so is slander.

Anyway, what we -can- judge is the teachings he left behind. Lots of videos, audio teachings and books. By now, I think I can say, I saw, listened to and read most of what's publicly available.

Some of his books may be harder to understand, but to me, most of them are "on". Pure Dharma. The more I studied his teachings, the more impressed I got. Today, I'm honestly grateful and feel immense gratitude for having come across his teachings, even though I've never met him.

Maybe his style isn't for everyone? But that's always the case with Dharma teachers.
It's definitely not for everyone. For me it was pivotal. I don't think I would have ever involved myself further in Dharma if not for Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism. It completely shifted my view on things. It remains (after 20 years or whatever since I first read it) to be one of the most important Dharma books I have read. That of course is a completely subjective thing. To others it might be (and I imagine it is) gobbledegook. Similarly, there are some famous Dharma teachers whose style I cannot comprehend at all.

Anyway, on the OP, I think that is the book you should read if you want to get into his other work. It is his most famous work for a reason, and really has some mojo.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by Matt J »

I would say it depends on who your primary teacher is. If you are learning from one of his students, or some one who is CTR-friendly, then it would likely be a great resource. I live near CTR "country" and a lot of lamas who come through all have nice things to say about him, so I doubt there is anything incorrect in his teachings. But if your teacher is into CTR, then I would probably leave it alone. Every teacher has their own approach.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
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Re: Chogyam Trungpa's The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma

Post by tobes »

Könchok Thrinley wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:45 pm And does anybody here have an experience with the Profound Treasury?
Someone gave me a copy of volume one which is the Hinayana perspective. It is pithy and good, but it's also not something I turn to very regularly.

Whereas many years ago, I read Myth of Freedom so many times the spine of the book eventually collapsed.....
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