Ability to Control the Weather

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Fortyeightvows
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Fortyeightvows »

Nevertheless, the book still remains kind of interesting as a historical document
The vocabulary seems strange sometimes to modern people, but it gives a pretty good account of the weather changers from someone who was there in that time period.
That’s why it someone were to want to learn about the weather changing practices, it would make sense to look at Waddell’s book.
Danny
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Danny »

Bonpo important klu’s - klu bum dkarpo, klu bum nagpo, klu bum khrabo. Indian deity of Varuna and its retinue. Varuna in Tibet is called klu rgyal Varuna or gZhon nu gtum po song ma med.
it’s blue with seven snakes above it’s head, holding a snare of snakes, or dark yellow with snake skin dress holding a vessel and a tortoise and riding on a nine headed makara.
The 18 hail masters Ser bdag bco brgyad, Also apparently is the mountain god gNyan chen thang lha. There also are the masters of lightning thog bdag also regarded as blacksmith gods. There are the - the’u rang class which also are responsible for both hail and lightning.
Other weather deities - the goddess Glog bdag mo, another mistress of lightning.

There’s too many to mention really.
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Gyurme Kundrol
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Gyurme Kundrol »

fckw wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:26 pm
Arnoud wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:55 pm
Grigoris wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:36 pm I would say that a huge majority of us here are incapable of controlling our bowel actions, when nature calls, and we want to control the weather?

Now that is deluded.
Is there a Siddhi which allows one to control one's bowels? I never heard of that one.
Sure there are. There are practices for reducing your food intake to an absolute minimum - or to none, if you happen to believe that. Hence, also your bowels logically must be influenced by those practices.
Its a lot simpler than that even. If you can control the inner winds, you can control your bowel movements and more. However, there is really no reason to do this 99.9999 percent of the time. Better to just let nature run its course.
javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

Tenma wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:56 pm
Does hail have a symbolism, by any chance, in Tibetan Buddhism or pre-Buddhist locality? If not, explain exactly how spirits cause hail. What even is a "spirit," first off? Embodiments of the elements? If not a personification as these spirits are sentient and thereby beings, then what are they? Why are they motivated to cause hail? Are they simply inventions to explain natural occurrences just so that the locality may behave?

Also, why do we even need hailmasters nowadays? Is there any use for them in these changing days?
in general "hail" brings destruction. "spirits" is a generic term. there are infinite kind of spirits.

follow me in this invented story:
imagine that you abandon boddhicita and become very selfish, then after you die maybe you rebirth as a kind of spirit, maybe you gained power through tantric practice but you still are dominated by your karmic vision, so another more powerful spirit see your and comes and subdue you, and then comes another to seize and take advantage of you, so you become a kind of servant of them, a kind of slave, a puppet, if you disobey you get punished, if you obey you can go around but not too far nor free. if you have some power maybe you can govern a particular phenomena, like throwing things for example. maybe in the beggining you remember a bit of your human life but you feel miserable, you don't have a home anymore, you are hungry but don't know what to eat, maybe some humans sever the threes where you found shelter, you know they use wood for various reasons, maybe you don't see ice anymore, you see stones, and you throw stones (hail) to humans, maybe they do it again and again and you get more angry and begin to find more and more things to throw, etc. it never ends. you live like that for hundreds, maybe thousands of years or until eventually you get killed. always in a turmoil of extreme hate, arrogance and revengefulness, always blaming others for your for what you become, never recognizing your faulta, never at peace, the love you received once from mother or father you don't have anymore, no friends, nothing left, no kindness for you.

there are infinite possibilities. some spirits are like that, the less of them are of a more kindred kind of spirits, but always are dominated by another bigger and nasty one, and in turn they are dominated by another more powerful, etc. until you get to what we call the guardians of the teachings, that dominate them all. and of course if you abandoned and missused the teaching you aren't in good terms with them.

there are hailmasters, weathermakers, yes, i don't think is an uncommon thing, but i think maybe this habilities should be used to bring balance to the enviroment, purify the enviroment, make people respect it, respect the water they have, etc. because the enviroment is a mess and everyone is upset about that. but who cares what i think. maybe one day a master will say something about that and we can get a more clear sense of what this skills are really for.

this is how i see it.
Fortyeightvows
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Fortyeightvows »

Those interested in buddhist weather control will enjoy this talk by Professor DeCaroli

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tGDjRo8vEY
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Lingpupa
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Lingpupa »

Gyurme Kundrol wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:54 am Its a lot simpler than that even. If you can control the inner winds, you can control your bowel movements and more. However, there is really no reason to do this 99.9999 percent of the time. Better to just let nature run its course.
So was your bout of e.coli as bad as mine was? :rolleye:
All the best
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Crazywisdom
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Crazywisdom »

Tenma wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:23 pm Why do we need siddhis?
I understand that we have the supreme siddhi (aka. enlightenment) or something more "accessible" such as being able to learn various languages, tantras, medicines, texts, etc. (though it seems more like a developed skill rather than some "magical power" that one usually describes siddhis with and then again, "enlightenment" isn't really magic), but why bother with common siddhis and doing extensive rites for controlling weather, elixirs, seeing yakshas and other spirits, etc.? Wouldn't you say this is more mundane and shamanistic rather than practical for the Dharma, especially in these changing times?

My respects to Lama Dawa and many of the lamas that had siddhis but how do siddhis contribute to enlightenment exactly? Aside from the answer about "benefiting beings" (the locality might need this or that, though I don't see how that's practical on the wide scale and I understand that healing is important, though from what I've observed, it seems limited to ancient herbal and medicinal practices or a psychological form of "faith healing"), how else are siddhis to contribute to enlightenment?

Perhaps I'm interpreting what "siddhis" are in the wrong sense, but I'd like some clarifications, thank you!
To benefit beings.
Danny
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Danny »

Just want to touch on one thing, being paid (often not) and most times payment was in sacks of barley or blocks of butter, which was more of practical use for retreats , Tormas and lamps etc, to induce rain and stop hail comes along with serious implications to ones reputation. If it fails then there were serious fines and punishments for the ngakpas involved. Not only obstacles to ones practice from the spirits but also from local authorities. You have to put it into context that the large colleges and monasteries controlled much of the surrounding agricultural lands, they had many mouths to feed, crop failures had serious impacts not only on the competitive dynasty building family elites ability to generate wealth, but also care for the wider health and prosperity of Tibetan society at large.
It was a dirty job that was outsourced to nagkpas because it was viewed as “black bon” rituals and so forth.
fckw
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by fckw »

If anyone is willing to look into practices used by Sakta-sects, there is a fascinating read on this topic by Alexis Sanderson: https://www.tantrictraditions.com/s/gar ... y-e4ey.pdf. Of course, reading comes at your own risk. After all, as a devout Buddhist practitioner you might end up in hell for peeping into Hindu tantric traditions if you are not careful.
Malcolm
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Malcolm »

fckw wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:39 am If anyone is willing to look into practices used by Sakta-sects, there is a fascinating read on this topic by Alexis Sanderson: https://www.tantrictraditions.com/s/gar ... y-e4ey.pdf. Of course, reading comes at your own risk. After all, as a devout Buddhist practitioner you might end up in hell for peeping into Hindu tantric traditions if you are not careful.
No, Buddhists can make use of Hindu rites.
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that name does not exist."
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yagmort
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by yagmort »

fckw wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:39 am If anyone is willing to look into practices used by Sakta-sects, there is a fascinating read on this topic by Alexis Sanderson
can not open file. is it just me?
humble.student
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by humble.student »

yagmort wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:36 pm
fckw wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:39 am If anyone is willing to look into practices used by Sakta-sects, there is a fascinating read on this topic by Alexis Sanderson
can not open file. is it just me?
It's just you. Remove the last full stop from the end of the url and it should be fine.
Norwegian
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Norwegian »

yagmort wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:36 pm
fckw wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:39 am If anyone is willing to look into practices used by Sakta-sects, there is a fascinating read on this topic by Alexis Sanderson
can not open file. is it just me?
If you can download the file, but not open it, try renaming the file, by removing the "ḍ" in "garuḍika" and replacing it with a standard "d". It is possible that the software you're using or the OS for some reason have an issue with the filename. If it's not this, then I don't know, as the file is legit.
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humble.student
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by humble.student »

“Mr Strange's letters are full of sage advice and remarkable insights into the condition of English magic. Why, only the other day Mr Tantony wrote and asked Mr Strange for a spell to make it stop raining – we get a great deal of rain in our part of Nottinghamshire. The very next day Mr Strange wrote back and said that, though there were indeed spells that could move rain and sunshine about, like pieces on a chessboard, he would never employ them except in the direst need, and he advised Mr Tantony to follow his example. English magic, said Mr Strange, had grown up upon English soil and had in a sense been nurtured by English rain. Mr Strange said that in meddling with English weather, we meddled with England, and in meddling with England we risked destroying the very foundations of English magic.”
- Susanna Clarke. Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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Karma_Yeshe
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

If you are a bodhisattva, practice the inner tantras (or anuttarayoga) and have developed a certain capability of doing inner and outer things, you will use your skills naturally when the circumstances demand it. And you will do it without making a big fuss about it.
There really is no need to speculate intellectually about such things.

One more thing: According to my experience it really pays off when you are a seasoned practicioner and you start to focus on one main practice that you follow for years and evolve in that practice.

KY
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Brahma
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Brahma »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:57 pm
fckw wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:39 am If anyone is willing to look into practices used by Sakta-sects, there is a fascinating read on this topic by Alexis Sanderson: https://www.tantrictraditions.com/s/gar ... y-e4ey.pdf. Of course, reading comes at your own risk. After all, as a devout Buddhist practitioner you might end up in hell for peeping into Hindu tantric traditions if you are not careful.
No, Buddhists can make use of Hindu rites.
Yes they can, much of Buddhist cosmology and terminology is derived from the Vedas. However, if one doesn't learn from a proper Spiritual Master when studying Hinduism, just like in Buddhism a proper Teacher is needed to convey the right meanings, one can fall Spiritually by misunderstandings. I started reading that PDF and quickly noticed it had misconceptions about the demigodess Kali, so I stopped reading it. If one cannot explain Spiritual things properly, listening to their advice may be unwholesome. One of Buddha's main reasons for descending onto this planet from the Tusita Heaven was to rid society of false religious rituals that did not lead to Enlightenment, and to teach the Dharma. So if someone wants to control the weather in an Enlightened way, I suggest they make friends with the Spirits and Beings that have control over the elements, especially the Buddhas entrusted with the sky, and that can be done in a powerful Buddhist way by meditation with the Right View and correct intention, and most importantly and ultimately seeking Enlightenment as the goal where all Siddhis can be actualized when needed.
Last edited by Brahma on Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
fckw
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by fckw »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:57 pm
fckw wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:39 am If anyone is willing to look into practices used by Sakta-sects, there is a fascinating read on this topic by Alexis Sanderson: https://www.tantrictraditions.com/s/gar ... y-e4ey.pdf. Of course, reading comes at your own risk. After all, as a devout Buddhist practitioner you might end up in hell for peeping into Hindu tantric traditions if you are not careful.
No, Buddhists can make use of Hindu rites.
The truly interesting question is the opposite: can Hindus make use of Buddhist rites?

But we are deviating. The text shows rituals how to control the weather from a Sakta perspective. There are little reasons to believe the, setting the fundamental difference in view aside for a moment, corresponding Buddhist texts were very different in terms of ritualistic approach.
Fortyeightvows
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Fortyeightvows »

There are little reasons to believe the, setting the fundamental difference in view aside for a moment, corresponding Buddhist texts were very different in terms of ritualistic approach.
If I read this right, it is true. The rituals are very very similar
pemachophel
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by pemachophel »

Apropos of this thread, Khandro Kunzang Dechen Chodron published a translation of the rain-making sadhana from the activity section of the Dudjom Tersar Khandro Thugthig (or was it Throma?). It is available from Saraswati Bhawan Publications for a nominal fee. So anyone interested could get a good idea of just what a rain-making sadhana might entail. However, on Her FB feed, She discusses the prerequisites for actually practicing this kind of activity. This includes ngondro, the approach and accomplishment with signs approved by one's Teacher, fire ceremony amendment, etc. and, very importantly, firm pride in oneself as the Deity. So not something for tourists.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
Tenma
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Re: Ability to Control the Weather

Post by Tenma »

Seeing how “powerful” these practitioners are in controlling the Himalayan spirts and their weather, why don’t we invite a few to Lake Superior (aka. “The lake that never gives up her dead”)?
That lake, specifically, is a very powerful one and very wrathful (based on a Tibetan cosmology, there would reside powerful and wild spirits).
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