Ability to Control the Weather

[pemachophel]

1. Being born into a ngakpa family with certain powers definitely helps. One of my Root Gurus, Lama Dawa Chodrak was born into a family that traced it's ngakpa lineage back to the time of Milarepa. I don't think that happens without a huge accumulation of merit. As a for instance of some sort of family connection, His Mother was born with tra-mig, eyes for mirror divination, and so was He. Other family members, no or not so much.

2. There are specific practices for controlling the weather. These usually appear as lay-jor/activities appended to certain Deity sadhanas. They typically require the following to make them work:

A. Empowerment
B. Lung
C. Tri
D. Mantra accumulation (i. approach, ii, accomplishment, iii. lay-jor, the activity mantra(s)
E. "Substances," i.e., certain substances or certain very specific equipment/implements. Some ngakpas spend huge amounts of time and effort on gathering the required substances. I just spent three years trying to get a specific substance and finally received a tiny little vial of what I was searching for.
F. Signs of the accomplishment of the practice. In other words you and your Guru know you have gotten the power (i.e., siddhi).
G. The right time and circumstances for enacting the activity

That being said, the following prayer from the Le'u Dunma can be used to control the weather with simply lung and tri. I have seen it with my own eyes. (I've told the story on this site previously.)

SA-CHU ME-LUNG JUNG-WAI BAR-CHED-KYI
GYU-LU NYEN-CHING JIG-PAI DU-JUNG-TSHE
YID-NYI THE-TSHOM MED-PAR SOL-WA-DEB
OR-GYEN JUNG-WA ZHI-YI LHA-MOR-CHAY
JUNG-WA RANG-SAR ZHI-WAR THE-TSHOM-MED
OR-GYEN PE-MA JUNG-NAY-LA SOL-WA-DEB
SAM-PA LHUN-GYI DRUB-PAR JIN-GYI LOB

When hindrances from the elements of earth, water, fire, or wind
Threaten to destroy [our] borrowed illusory bodies,
If [we] pray to [You] without doubt or hesitation,
Orgyen, [You with] the Goddesses of the Four Elements
Will pacify the elements naturally. [Of this there is, likewise,] no doubt.
Orgyen Pema Jungnay to You we pray.
Grant [Your] blessings that [all our] wishes be spontaneously accomplished.

There is a wang for this prayer. There're also a special mantra and visualization. However, I have seen it work in a group to make rain without the wang or special mantra and simply visualizing the Nang-sid Zil-non form of Guru Rinpoche. With enough faith, effort (i.e., repetition), and practitioners practicing in concert, it can work.

As stated above, it's possible to control rain if one has developed a strong relationship with the nagas. This can be done through naga puja, naga sang, and/or certain specific Deity sadhanas (such as Simhanada, Vajrapani, Garuda, Nagaraja, Takhyung Barwa, etc.) In this case, one may be able to either request or order the nagas to either cause or stop the rain without necessarily a lot of very specific equipment and practices. As a for instance of this, when Lama Dawa arrived some place, there would often be a light and/or short rain, possibly even rain with sunshine. Lama Dawa explained this was the local nagas and Lords of the Earth welcoming Him. For this He didn't need to do anything special at that time. It was based on a lifetime's practice and relationship with the Nagas and their subjects.

Some Teachers can see which of Their students have the capacity for developing certain abilities. So having such a capacity (based on past-life karma) can be a very important factor in developing this ability. Of course, having a ngakpa teacher who Him or Herself has accomplished this ability is also important.

Gom-chen in Bhutan are routinely required to control the weather through the growing season. Often they practice in retreat during the winter so that their abilities will be up to snuff in the spring, summer, and fall. During the growing season, they may even live in or near the fields they are charged with protecting. Sangyum Kamala's Father, Tulzhuk Lingpa, had a Bhutanese student, Gya-zhi-pa, who was an expert weather maker. He died several years ago. When I visited Zilnon Gompa a couple-few years ago, I tried to find out what happened to his treasure of substances, but did not luck out.

IMO, for Western/developed country practitioners, it's probably not be a wise use of time to try to develop this ability. There are other practices and abilities that are more important in our milieu, such as turning back the Covid-19 pandemic, let alone developing wisdom and compassion.

Sorry if any of this is wrong. It's just my experience.

[Grigoris]

^^^ ^^^

Thank you lama!

[Konchog Thogme Jampa]

1. Being born into a ngakpa family with certain powers definitely helps. One of my Root Gurus, Lama Dawa Chodrak was born into a family that traced it's ngakpa lineage back to the time of Milarepa. I don't think that happens without a huge accumulation of merit. As a for instance of some sort of family connection, His Mother was born with tra-mig, eyes for mirror divination, and so was He. Other family members, no or not so much.

2. There are specific practices for controlling the weather. These usually appear as lay-jor/activities appended to certain Deity sadhanas. They typically require the following to make them work:

A. Empowerment
B. Lung
C. Tri
D. Mantra accumulation (i. approach, ii, accomplishment, iii. lay-jor, the activity mantra(s)
E. "Substances," i.e., certain substances or certain very specific equipment/implements. Some ngakpas spend huge amounts of time and effort on gathering the required substances. I just spent three years trying to get a specific substance and finally received a tiny little vial of what I was searching for.
F. Signs of the accomplishment of the practice. In other words you and your Guru know you have gotten the power (i.e., siddhi).
G. The right time and circumstances for enacting the activity

That being said, the following prayer from the Le'u Dunma can be used to control the weather with simply lung and tri. I have seen it with my own eyes. (I've told the story on this site previously.)

SA-CHU ME-LUNG JUNG-WAI BAR-CHED-KYI
GYU-LU NYEN-CHING JIG-PAI DU-JUNG-TSHE
YID-NYI THE-TSHOM MED-PAR SOL-WA-DEB
OR-GYEN JUNG-WA ZHI-YI LHA-MOR-CHAY
JUNG-WA RANG-SAR ZHI-WAR THE-TSHOM-MED
OR-GYEN PE-MA JUNG-NAY-LA SOL-WA-DEB
SAM-PA LHUN-GYI DRUB-PAR JIN-GYI LOB

When hindrances from the elements of earth, water, fire, or wind
Threaten to destroy [our] borrowed illusory bodies,
If [we] pray to [You] without doubt or hesitation,
Orgyen, [You with] the Goddesses of the Four Elements
Will pacify the elements naturally. [Of this there is, likewise,] no doubt.
Orgyen Pema Jungnay to You we pray.
Grant [Your] blessings that [all our] wishes be spontaneously accomplished.

There is a wang for this prayer. There're also a special mantra and visualization. However, I have seen it work in a group to make rain without the wang or special mantra and simply visualizing the Nang-sid Zil-non form of Guru Rinpoche. With enough faith, effort (i.e., repetition), and practitioners practicing in concert, it can work.

As stated above, it's possible to control rain if one has developed a strong relationship with the nagas. This can be done through naga puja, naga sang, and/or certain specific Deity sadhanas (such as Simhanada, Vajrapani, Garuda, Nagaraja, Takhyung Barwa, etc.) In this case, one may be able to either request or order the nagas to either cause or stop the rain without necessarily a lot of very specific equipment and practices. As a for instance of this, when Lama Dawa arrived some place, there would often be a light and/or short rain, possibly even rain with sunshine. Lama Dawa explained this was the local nagas and Lords of the Earth welcoming Him. For this He didn't need to do anything special at that time. It was based on a lifetime's practice and relationship with the Nagas and their subjects.

Some Teachers can see which of Their students have the capacity for developing certain abilities. So having such a capacity (based on past-life karma) can be a very important factor in developing this ability. Of course, having a ngakpa teacher who Him or Herself has accomplished this ability is also important.

Gom-chen in Bhutan are routinely required to control the weather through the growing season. Often they practice in retreat during the winter so that their abilities will be up to snuff in the spring, summer, and fall. During the growing season, they may even live in or near the fields they are charged with protecting. Sangyum Kamala's Father, Tulzhuk Lingpa, had a Bhutanese student, Gya-zhi-pa, who was an expert weather maker. He died several years ago. When I visited Zilnon Gompa a couple-few years ago, I tried to find out what happened to his treasure of substances, but did not luck out.

IMO, for Western/developed country practitioners, it's probably not be a wise use of time to try to develop this ability. There are other practices and abilities that are more important in our milieu, such as turning back the Covid-19 pandemic, let alone developing wisdom and compassion.

Sorry if any of this is wrong. It's just my experience.

Thanks for your knowledge and expertise!!!

[Tenma]

Why do we need siddhis?
I understand that we have the supreme siddhi (aka. enlightenment) or something more "accessible" such as being able to learn various languages, tantras, medicines, texts, etc. (though it seems more like a developed skill rather than some "magical power" that one usually describes siddhis with and then again, "enlightenment" isn't really magic), but why bother with common siddhis and doing extensive rites for controlling weather, elixirs, seeing yakshas and other spirits, etc.? Wouldn't you say this is more mundane and shamanistic rather than practical for the Dharma, especially in these changing times?

My respects to Lama Dawa and many of the lamas that had siddhis but how do siddhis contribute to enlightenment exactly? Aside from the answer about "benefiting beings" (the locality might need this or that, though I don't see how that's practical on the wide scale and I understand that healing is important, though from what I've observed, it seems limited to ancient herbal and medicinal practices or a psychological form of "faith healing"), how else are siddhis to contribute to enlightenment?

Perhaps I'm interpreting what "siddhis" are in the wrong sense, but I'd like some clarifications, thank you!

[treehuggingoctopus]

Thank you!
<3 <3 <3

[jet.urgyen]

Thank you Lama Pema.

[pemachophel]

Bone lineage is the lineage from one's father's side. Blood lineage is the lineage from one's mother's side. Abilities can be "inherited" or run on either side.

[pemachophel]

Tenma,

Ordinary or common siddhi either A) directly help one or more suffering sentient beings or B) increase faith and devotion in one or more sentient beings. In many instances they do both. In some instances, the recipient does not know what actually happened.

When employed by a Bodhisatva, they are thrin-lay, [Enlightened] activity and are typically divided into the four thrin-lay: pacifying, enriching or increasing, overpowering, or wrathful subjugation. If you don't think these four activities are important, then you don't understand Vajrayana and you definitely haven't gotten to the lay-jor section of a Vajrayana sadhana. And that's totally ok. We all are at where we are at. But if you'd really like to understand common siddhi, you need to find a Guru who has such siddhi.

Further, common siddhi are not necessary for Realization. They may either help or hinder Realization. If working closely with a qualified Guru, they can help. If one lets the siddhi go to their head, they can hinder. The bottom line in Vajrayana is working directly with a qualified Guru, but I've said this to you before.

Good luck & best wishes.

[PeterC]

Why do we need siddhis?
I understand that we have the supreme siddhi (aka. enlightenment) or something more "accessible" such as being able to learn various languages, tantras, medicines, texts, etc. (though it seems more like a developed skill rather than some "magical power" that one usually describes siddhis with and then again, "enlightenment" isn't really magic), but why bother with common siddhis and doing extensive rites for controlling weather, elixirs, seeing yakshas and other spirits, etc.? Wouldn't you say this is more mundane and shamanistic rather than practical for the Dharma, especially in these changing times?

My respects to Lama Dawa and many of the lamas that had siddhis but how do siddhis contribute to enlightenment exactly? Aside from the answer about "benefiting beings" (the locality might need this or that, though I don't see how that's practical on the wide scale and I understand that healing is important, though from what I've observed, it seems limited to ancient herbal and medicinal practices or a psychological form of "faith healing"), how else are siddhis to contribute to enlightenment?

Perhaps I'm interpreting what "siddhis" are in the wrong sense, but I'd like some clarifications, thank you!

Think of it relative to, say, long life practices. They don’t cause us to be enlightened. But they allow us to remain alive longer so that we can achieve that bigger goal.

You die without food. In an agricultural society, there’s a pretty close relationship between weather and having food.

You can extend the argument to other siddhis

[Grigoris]

Think of it relative to, say, long life practices. They don’t cause us to be enlightened. But they allow us to remain alive longer so that we can achieve that bigger goal.

Ummmm... actually you can attain enlightenment through long-life yidam practices.

[PeterC]

Think of it relative to, say, long life practices. They don’t cause us to be enlightened. But they allow us to remain alive longer so that we can achieve that bigger goal.

Ummmm... actually you can attain enlightenment through long-life yidam practices.

Some of them. Not all long life practices would lead there

[heart]

Think of it relative to, say, long life practices. They don’t cause us to be enlightened. But they allow us to remain alive longer so that we can achieve that bigger goal.

Ummmm... actually you can attain enlightenment through long-life yidam practices.

Some of them. Not all long life practices would lead there

Why do you think that?

/magnus

[PeterC]

Ummmm... actually you can attain enlightenment through long-life yidam practices.

Some of them. Not all long life practices would lead there

Why do you think that?

/magnus

Some do not involve self-generation, receiving the empowerments and completion stage. They might confer blessings that could be the cause for meeting the means of liberation but aren't the means of liberation themselves

[Charlie123]

[Mod note: This quote was taken from this old thread: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=26392#p404144 ]

...Kunzang Dechen Lingpa had this ability. Ngagpa Rinpoche was able to stop monsoon rains, droughts, and so on.

are these abilities connected to Thröma Nakmo practice, or it's just a coincidence ?

There is a long interview in a scholastic book (can't remember the name right now) with Khetsun Sangpo Rinpoche who was a weather controller in Tibet. As far as I can remember it involved threatening and controlling various invisible beings. If the weather controller failed the farmers blamed him/her. Khetsun Sangpo Rinpoche said he was glad he didn't have to do it anymore.

/magnus

Probably something from Anne Klein.

[heart]

Some of them. Not all long life practices would lead there

Why do you think that?

/magnus

Some do not involve self-generation, receiving the empowerments and completion stage. They might confer blessings that could be the cause for meeting the means of liberation but aren't the means of liberation themselves

Not exactly sure which practices you are referring to.

/magnus

[PeterC]

Why do you think that?

/magnus

Some do not involve self-generation, receiving the empowerments and completion stage. They might confer blessings that could be the cause for meeting the means of liberation but aren't the means of liberation themselves

Not exactly sure which practices you are referring to.

/magnus

Probably not suitable for public fora. But things involving front generation.

[heart]

[Mod note: This quote was taken from this old thread: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=26392#p404144 ]




are these abilities connected to Thröma Nakmo practice, or it's just a coincidence ?

There is a long interview in a scholastic book (can't remember the name right now) with Khetsun Sangpo Rinpoche who was a weather controller in Tibet. As far as I can remember it involved threatening and controlling various invisible beings. If the weather controller failed the farmers blamed him/her. Khetsun Sangpo Rinpoche said he was glad he didn't have to do it anymore.

/magnus

Probably something from Anne Klein.

Could be, not sure, but I found this:

"6.1 Weather control and pesticides

The VTSKR is a detailed ritual manual which gives various instructions enabling the Sangha to provide agriculture-related services to laypeople. These techniques, primarily for rainmaking and also for other kinds of weather control, work by overpowering Nāgas held responsible for precipitation; furthermore, there are prescriptions for the use of specially empowered pesticides to eliminate ways of practice, all centred on the recitation of a specific spell, include creating a ritual space (maṇḍala(ka)) with offerings, effigies, stakes and banners, performing a pacification rite, throwing empowered pills into a Nāga lake, animating a Nāga effigy, throwing mustard seeds around for protection, waving a sword with a Garuḍa painted on it, entering the residence of Nāgas in order to overpower them, animating a Garuḍa effigy, and employing a vajra for safeguard. Providing such ritual services also means the gaining of revenues, and quite remarkably the text itself speaks at one point of profit-making, when an assembly of Nāgas thus addresses the Buddha: “O Bhagavān, how will monks
be in the last time, in the last age, after the Tathāgata has departed? They will be fierce and because of an eager desire for wealth they will be attached to warding off cold spells, winds and thunderbolts.”This brief passage shows that with such services the monastic community was likely to be able to secure considerable revenues. "

https://library.oapen.org/bitstream/id/ ... 006581.pdf

/magnus

[Grigoris]

6.1 Weather control and pesticides

The VTSKR is a detailed ritual manual which gives various instructions enabling the Sangha to provide agriculture-related services to laypeople. These techniques, primarily for rainmaking and also for other kinds of weather control, work by overpowering Nāgas held responsible for precipitation; furthermore, there are prescriptions for the use of specially empowered pesticides to eliminate ways of practice, all centred on the recitation of a specific spell, include creating a ritual space (maṇḍala(ka)) with offerings, effigies, stakes and banners, performing a pacification rite, throwing empowered pills into a Nāga lake, animating a Nāga effigy, throwing mustard seeds around for protection, waving a sword with a Garuḍa painted on it, entering the residence of Nāgas in order to overpower them, animating a Garuḍa effigy, and employing a vajra for safeguard. Providing such ritual services also means the gaining of revenues, and quite remarkably the text itself speaks at one point of profit-making, when an assembly of Nāgas thus addresses the Buddha: “O Bhagavān, how will monks
be in the last time, in the last age, after the Tathāgata has departed? They will be fierce and because of an eager desire for wealth they will be attached to warding off cold spells, winds and thunderbolts.”This brief passage shows that with such services the monastic community was likely to be able to secure considerable revenues. "

https://library.oapen.org/bitstream/id/ ... 006581.pdf

Good luck doing all that effectively without preliminary training and preparation and without completing a yidam practice first.

Half of us here cannot even make a decent torma dough...

[jet.urgyen]

Could be, not sure, but I found this:

"6.1 Weather control and pesticides
...
Providing such ritual services also means the gaining of revenues, and quite remarkably the text itself speaks at one point of profit-making, when an assembly of Nāgas thus addresses the Buddha: “O Bhagavān, how will monks
be in the last time, in the last age, after the Tathāgata has departed? They will be fierce and because of an eager desire for wealth they will be attached to warding off cold spells, winds and thunderbolts.”This brief passage shows that with such services the monastic community was likely to be able to secure considerable revenues. "

https://library.oapen.org/bitstream/id/ ... 006581.pdf

/magnus

i find such trade a disgusting thing, kind of maffia: bullying for coin. always wondered why reputable yogins would envolve in it.

[heart]

Could be, not sure, but I found this:

"6.1 Weather control and pesticides
...
Providing such ritual services also means the gaining of revenues, and quite remarkably the text itself speaks at one point of profit-making, when an assembly of Nāgas thus addresses the Buddha: “O Bhagavān, how will monks
be in the last time, in the last age, after the Tathāgata has departed? They will be fierce and because of an eager desire for wealth they will be attached to warding off cold spells, winds and thunderbolts.”This brief passage shows that with such services the monastic community was likely to be able to secure considerable revenues. "

https://library.oapen.org/bitstream/id/ ... 006581.pdf

/magnus

i find such trade a disgusting thing, kind of maffia: bullying for coin. always wondered why reputable yogins would envolve in it.

That was the reason Khetsun Sangpo Rinpoche didn't like to do it. He was a reputable yogi and so was Ngakpa Yeshe Dorje (Dalai Lamas weather controller).

/magnus