Giving a Text on Emptiness-Appearance to a non-Buddhist?

[White Sakura]

The young man has a Buddhist partner, and is therefore not killing flies anymore, for not hurting the partners feelings. Then he discovered it is good for his own heart not to kill insects anymore.
I said, there are also other aspects of Buddhism, there is a philosophy and this goes along with the modern atomic theory. Especially with the light-wave theory.
I have a short text from Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche where he analyzes a Smartphone and comes to the conclusion that it does not exist as a single, inherently existing object. He explains the moon-reflection analogy and also comes up with the atomic theory. All this goes together perfectly. At the end of the text he says that same as the object, the Self does not exist as well, so we do not need to take our problems that serious.

Now my question: Such a modern text on emptiness seems to me the best fitting for somebody who sticks to science, logic and own thinking. To make clear that it is not a religion you need to believe without having a chance of checking it by thinking logically.
He was surprised when I said that about atomic theory. I don´t know if this is an illusion but it occurred to me as if he was thrilled for a moment.

Now the problem: The best texts are always those which we should not give to a person who is just interested, or a beginner. Because we should not give text about emptiness to them according to the Bodhisattva rules. But if I do not give him the text he will never get rid of the notion about "religion".= Believing in something that cannot be proved.Something irrational. And so on...

This texts ( and similar ones) seems to be the only that could dissolve this false notion about Buddhism. And he was interested in that text. I said I have to ask, we have some...err.. religious rules about such texts...this was not the best moment in the conversation..

[PadmaVonSamba]

If they ask, or it comes up in conversation in such a way that bringing up Buddhist theory is appropriate, then I offer it. If nobody asks, then I don’t mention Dharma to people.

Setting an example is the best teacher. For example, if everyone around you is upset while you remain calm, and someone notices that, and the reason why you are calm is because of your Dharma practice, and they ask you, “how is it that you are not upset?” Then Go ahead and talk to them them about Dharma teachings.

Generally, Ponlop Rinpoche speaks to the general public at large. I wouldn’t categorize anything he has published as “off limits” to people who have no basic familiarity with Buddhist theory.

...

[White Sakura]

If they ask, or it comes up in conversation in such a way that bringing up Buddhist theory is appropriate, then I offer it. If nobody asks, then I don’t mention Dharma to people.

Setting an example is the best teacher. For example, if everyone around you is upset while you remain calm, and someone notices that, and the reason why you are calm is because of your Dharma practice, and they ask you, “how is it that you are not upset?” Then Go ahead and talk to them them about Dharma teachings.

Generally, Ponlop Rinpoche speaks to the general public at large. I wouldn’t categorize anything he has published as “off limits” to people who have no basic familiarity with Buddhist theory.

...

great thanks. He already noticed the good examples.The partner not killing flies and this is why he talks about Buddhism. Is just a bit concerned about himself because he got rid of "religion" and never had the intention to adopt a new one.
I hope some people will agree here regarding public Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche texts. The book is "mind beyond death" so I would not give the whole book to non-Buddhists, only a copy of that four pages.

[Johnny Dangerous]

If they ask, or it comes up in conversation in such a way that bringing up Buddhist theory is appropriate, then I offer it. If nobody asks, then I don’t mention Dharma to people.

Setting an example is the best teacher. For example, if everyone around you is upset while you remain calm, and someone notices that, and the reason why you are calm is because of your Dharma practice, and they ask you, “how is it that you are not upset?” Then Go ahead and talk to them them about Dharma teachings.

Generally, Ponlop Rinpoche speaks to the general public at large. I wouldn’t categorize anything he has published as “off limits” to people who have no basic familiarity with Buddhist theory.

...

great thanks. He already noticed the good examples.The partner not killing flies and this is why he talks about Buddhism. Is just a bit concerned about himself because he got rid of "religion" and never had the intention to adopt a new one.
I hope some people will agree here regarding public Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche texts. The book is "mind beyond death" so I would not give the whole book to non-Buddhists, only a copy of that four pages.

Usually people who are entrenched in being "non-religious" are drawn in by Buddhist philosophy, and eventually get more into practice, IME. If he has interest in (obviously basic) meditation itself that is often the "safest" material.

[Lingpupa]

... with the modern atomic theory. Especially with the light-wave theory.
...

I can't help but wonder what you mean by this. I have a clear impression that a lot of attempts to tie Buddhism (inter alia) to modern physics are spurious, speculative, hand-waving guesswork.

And don't get me started on quantum theory!

[White Sakura]

Usually people who are entrenched in being "non-religious" are drawn in by Buddhist philosophy, and eventually get more into practice, IME. If he has interest in (obviously basic) meditation itself that is often the "safest" material.

his interest is compassion at the moment. He discovered that engaging in compassionate actions makes him feel better and turning around himself makes him feel worse. He didn´t even know that there is something for the logical mind.

[jet.urgyen]

emptiness doesn't need much debate, but if he insists you can show him a prajñaparamita hrdhaya copy, it is not a book really only a few pages butt it is the most straightforward and clear you could find, but if a book.... maybe this can be of use

https://books.google.cl/books?id=oQHU_j ... ya&f=false

[Grigoris]

emptiness doesn't need much debate, but if he insists you can show him a prajñaparamita hrdhaya copy, it is not a book really only a few pages butt it is the most straightforward and clear you could find, but if a book.... maybe this can be of use

https://books.google.cl/books?id=oQHU_j ... ya&f=false

Yeah. Like it is not just the densest and most difficult text to unpack in the entire Mahayana Canon...

[PadmaVonSamba]

The Buddhist teachings simply focus on the true nature of phenomena and about the human experience of that phenomena, which is identified as one of continuing dissatisfaction due to a fundamentally mistaken perception, which it aims to correct.

It is only because of the path of human societal evolution that the Buddhist teachings have been preserved in what we consider to be a specifically religious context. But even the concept of “religion” as we understand it, as an isolated category, is particular to the European experience.

[Danny]

As a jumping off point for someone new who expresses an interest.
I would recommend the heart sutra. It has surface level understanding, but also goes way deeper for further exploration if they so wish or inclined to do so. And additional bonus, is they, having read it and pondered, have good merit for doing just that simple thing.

[jet.urgyen]

emptiness doesn't need much debate, but if he insists you can show him a prajñaparamita hrdhaya copy, it is not a book really only a few pages butt it is the most straightforward and clear you could find, but if a book.... maybe this can be of use

https://books.google.cl/books?id=oQHU_j ... ya&f=false

Yeah. Like it is not just the densest and most difficult text to unpack in the entire Mahayana Canon...

haha yeah. but also is like flipping a coin for prajña to arise in some degree while reading

[White Sakura]

emptiness doesn't need much debate, but if he insists you can show him a prajñaparamita hrdhaya copy, it is not a book really only a few pages butt it is the most straightforward and clear you could find, but if a book.... maybe this can be of use

https://books.google.cl/books?id=oQHU_j ... ya&f=false

I dream of him being that interested. I think four copied book pages from a modern master are the maximum.

[White Sakura]

As a jumping off point for someone new who expresses an interest.
I would recommend the heart sutra. It has surface level understanding, but also goes way deeper for further exploration if they so wish or inclined to do so. And additional bonus, is they, having read it and pondered, have good merit for doing just that simple thing.

That is a good idea for my son who I also have to advise. He is reading more.

[White Sakura]

The Buddhist teachings simply focus on the true nature of phenomena and about the human experience of that phenomena, which is identified as one of continuing dissatisfaction due to a fundamentally mistaken perception, which it aims to correct.

It is only because of the path of human societal evolution that the Buddhist teachings have been preserved in what we consider to be a specifically religious context. But even the concept of “religion” as we understand it, as an isolated category, is particular to the European experience.

My son would not dream of seeing any link between Dharma and Christian Religion. He simply never thinks about the latter. But that is how a young person, who grew up in Dharma, feels things. He sees himself not as "religious", but Buddhist.
He only knows young people who are happy to get rid of the Christian religion. It is disappearing in Germany more and more. It is a good idea what you said. Because he can make that clear to others. So I can tell him how others feel and that he can try to make that clear. He can say he is studying philosophy and not reading fairy-tales, for example.

[PadmaVonSamba]

The Buddhist teachings simply focus on the true nature of phenomena and about the human experience of that phenomena, which is identified as one of continuing dissatisfaction due to a fundamentally mistaken perception, which it aims to correct.

It is only because of the path of human societal evolution that the Buddhist teachings have been preserved in what we consider to be a specifically religious context. But even the concept of “religion” as we understand it, as an isolated category, is particular to the European experience.

My son would not dream of seeing any link between Dharma and Christian Religion. He simply never thinks about the latter. But that is how a young person, who grew up in Dharma, feels things. He sees himself not as "religious", but Buddhist.
He only knows young people who are happy to get rid of the Christian religion. It is disappearing in Germany more and more. It is a good idea what you said. Because he can make that clear to others. So I can tell him how others feel and that he can try to make that clear. He can say he is studying philosophy and not reading fairy-tales, for example.

A Nepali friend explained to me that where he is from, someone might ask if you are a “Dharma person” meaning a Buddhist. Or someone might ask if you are a devotee if shiva or any of what we call “Hindu” (another western concept) but if someone were to ask, what is your religion, that is not really a categorical concept. Of course, anyone who speaks English would understand the question. But, it would be like asking, in the West, “which type of food person are you?” Sure, everyone has preferences, but phrasing that way is odd.

[Varis]

his interest is compassion at the moment. He discovered that engaging in compassionate actions makes him feel better and turning around himself makes him feel worse. He didn´t even know that there is something for the logical mind.

Then forget about Sunyavada and give him a book centered on metta, karuna, mahakaruna, etc. like Thich Nhat Hanh's How to Love, and True Love: A Practice for Awakening the Heart.

[Varis]

But even the concept of “religion” as we understand it, as an isolated category, is particular to the European experience.

Pretty Euro-centric assumption, the concept of religion exists in other cultures.

[White Sakura]

any of what we call “Hindu” (another western concept)

I also heard that in a video of Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche. But I met an Indian guy two days ago. I was unsure how to ask about religion. Then he just said: "I am a Hindu."
And he believes, Buddhism is a particular sect of Hinduism.

[White Sakura]

A Nepali friend explained to me that where he is from, someone might ask if you are a “Dharma person” meaning a Buddhist. Or someone might ask if you are a devotee if shiva or any of what we call “Hindu” (another western concept) but if someone were to ask, what is your religion, that is not really a categorical concept. Of course, anyone who speaks English would understand the question. But, it would be like asking, in the West, “which type of food person are you?” Sure, everyone has preferences, but phrasing that way is odd.

Good, they always know better in Asia.

[PadmaVonSamba]

any of what we call “Hindu” (another western concept)

I also heard that in a video of Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche. But I met an Indian guy two days ago. I was unsure how to ask about religion. Then he just said: "I am a Hindu."
And he believes, Buddhism is a particular sect of Hinduism.

I too was going by DKR’s interpretation of things.
It can certainly be argued that Buddhism arose within the context of Indian spiritual beliefs.
Perhaps even “heretical Hinduism” to some.