Vajrasattva Question(s)
Vajrasattva Question(s)
Hello,
I was wondering what class of Tantra Vajrasattva is associated with? I’m assuming he is Vajra Lineage?
Also isn’t there something like if you have received an initiation for a deity in one class of Tantra then you can self-generate or visualize yourself as any deity from that class?
Thank you.
I was wondering what class of Tantra Vajrasattva is associated with? I’m assuming he is Vajra Lineage?
Also isn’t there something like if you have received an initiation for a deity in one class of Tantra then you can self-generate or visualize yourself as any deity from that class?
Thank you.
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
Depends on the empowerment. There's Vajrasattva in Kriya Tantra (I think) and Anuttarayoga Tantra as well.
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
The only thing similar to this that I am aware of in Vajrayana is empowerment into a Shitro Mandala being authorization to self-visualize as any deity. But this is apparently only held in Nyingma, and I've never directly heard a lama mention it.
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
Is there a main differentiation as to how something is visualized in Yoga Tantra as to how it’s visualized in HYT?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
I'm pretty sure I've heard of Gelugs offering Kriya Tantra Vajrasattva empowerments, but I'll have to check.
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Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
The single figure Karma Kagyu ngondro version with the legs uncrossed is Yoga Tantra.
Other traditions use yab-yum and single figure in full lotus for ngondro. I don’t know about them.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
It's said that if you have Kalachakra empowerment you can practice any diety. I don't know how true that is in practice though.
"I have never encountered a person who committed bad deeds." ― Ven. Jìngkōng
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
There are many different lineages of Vajrasattva, you will need to specify which Vajrasattva you are talking about to know which class (kriya, carya, yoga, anuttarayoga) of tantra the practice belongs to. The classification of which Buddha family (Tathagata, Lotus, Vajra family etc) is a division within the different classes of tantra. You can usually tell this based on which Buddha crowns the deity after the initiation is conferred in the sadhana.sangyey wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:14 pm Hello,
I was wondering what class of Tantra Vajrasattva is associated with? I’m assuming he is Vajra Lineage?
Also isn’t there something like if you have received an initiation for a deity in one class of Tantra then you can self-generate or visualize yourself as any deity from that class?
Thank you.
Regarding self-generation, it is a general principle in Sakya and Gelug tantra that if you have received a great initiation (wang) for a deity of the same or higher class of tantra, then you can receive just a permission initiation (jenang) and self generate as the deity. You still need to receive the jenang before you self generate.
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
What is the difference with Vajrasattva with and without consort?
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
AFAIK, they are given through different empowerments. If you don't have both, it's possibly difficult to try them out and compair. And shortly said, I don't believe that one is 'better' than the other. It depends on time, place and person.
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
If you have an empowerment, or not you can visualize all and everything..... especially to get a rough idea!
For some seconds.... to get a sensation -
it is not necessary to do a whole sadhana.
If it is a transgression, or not....or incorrect, or correct, or a samaya-break, or your head bursts, or the earth shatters....or...or.... is imho a little different discussion
Sometimes I look at a yidam I never saw before I automatically (not really by will) do a very, very short self-transformation of this deity
- and I am still alive!
Lost In Transmission
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
Well, that's your personal experience. It's not always appropriate to generalize personal experiences.lelopa wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:10 amIf you have an empowerment, or not you can visualize all and everything..... especially to get a rough idea!
For some seconds.... to get a sensation -
it is not necessary to do a whole sadhana.
If it is a transgression, or not....or incorrect, or correct, or a samaya-break, or your head bursts, or the earth shatters....or...or.... is imho a little different discussion
Sometimes I look at a yidam I never saw before I automatically (not really by will) do a very, very short self-transformation of this deity
- and I am still alive!
But I have to admit, I love empowerments. And I do get a better connection by practicing it for a while. Spontaneous feelings of being connected I had very very seldomly.
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
Genralize personal experience???Ayu wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:23 pmWell, that's your personal experience. It's not always appropriate to generalize personal experiences.lelopa wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:10 amIf you have an empowerment, or not you can visualize all and everything..... especially to get a rough idea!
For some seconds.... to get a sensation -
it is not necessary to do a whole sadhana.
If it is a transgression, or not....or incorrect, or correct, or a samaya-break, or your head bursts, or the earth shatters....or...or.... is imho a little different discussion
Sometimes I look at a yidam I never saw before I automatically (not really by will) do a very, very short self-transformation of this deity
- and I am still alive!
But I have to admit, I love empowerments. And I do get a better connection by practicing it for a while. Spontaneous feelings of being connected I had very very seldomly.
Wow, it is very amazing what you read out of some posts
Lost In Transmission
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
I think Ayu was saying, politely, that doing self-transformation into yidams you haven't seen before isn't something that teachers suggest, and probably isn't something we should encourage most people to do. If that's what was meant, I would agree with itlelopa wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:44 amGenralize personal experience???Ayu wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:23 pmWell, that's your personal experience. It's not always appropriate to generalize personal experiences.lelopa wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:10 am
If you have an empowerment, or not you can visualize all and everything..... especially to get a rough idea!
For some seconds.... to get a sensation -
it is not necessary to do a whole sadhana.
If it is a transgression, or not....or incorrect, or correct, or a samaya-break, or your head bursts, or the earth shatters....or...or.... is imho a little different discussion
Sometimes I look at a yidam I never saw before I automatically (not really by will) do a very, very short self-transformation of this deity
- and I am still alive!
But I have to admit, I love empowerments. And I do get a better connection by practicing it for a while. Spontaneous feelings of being connected I had very very seldomly.
Wow, it is very amazing what you read out of some posts
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
First of all:PeterC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:37 amI think Ayu was saying, politely, that doing self-transformation into yidams you haven't seen before isn't something that teachers suggest, and probably isn't something we should encourage most people to do. If that's what was meant, I would agree with itlelopa wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:44 amGenralize personal experience???Ayu wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:23 pm
Well, that's your personal experience. It's not always appropriate to generalize personal experiences.
But I have to admit, I love empowerments. And I do get a better connection by practicing it for a while. Spontaneous feelings of being connected I had very very seldomly.
Wow, it is very amazing what you read out of some posts
I think even the word "self-transformation" isn't appropriate, because it is more a short "imagine".
Imagine you are a Cheeseburger, or a car, or a Lincoln-statue.....I do not really compare this with self-transformation in Vajrayana-sence...
maybe that's the generalisation ??
A Lama Rinpoche gave the example I wrote above at a teaching-retreat and he didn't say: "first of all you must have the empowerment of Vajrasatva and the empowerment of VS-YabYum"
it was more as I wrote it: "do it and you'll see/feel the difference"
I was sure that I didn't encourage people to do self-transformations in Yidams they never saw before...
only this little "tip" which a Lama gave at a Dzogchen teaching....
but it seems it was too much.
Lost In Transmission
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Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
From a Gelug point of view, H.E. the 104th Ganden Tripa gave a Vajrasattva jenang in Austria last year that could be taken as HYT or kriya. I believe he also said it was a sort of 'general purpose' empowerment that could be used as a basis for practicing any specific form of Vajrasattva, for example Heruka Vajrasattva.
Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
That helps make it clearer. If you re-read your original comment, you can probably see how it could be misinterpreted. I'm pretty certain, however, that no lama would encourage self-visualization as Vajrasattva without the relevant empowerment - but I wasn't there so don't know exactly what he/she said.lelopa wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:05 am
First of all:
I think even the word "self-transformation" isn't appropriate, because it is more a short "imagine".
Imagine you are a Cheeseburger, or a car, or a Lincoln-statue.....I do not really compare this with self-transformation in Vajrayana-sence...
maybe that's the generalisation ??
A Lama Rinpoche gave the example I wrote above at a teaching-retreat and he didn't say: "first of all you must have the empowerment of Vajrasatva and the empowerment of VS-YabYum"
it was more as I wrote it: "do it and you'll see/feel the difference"
I was sure that I didn't encourage people to do self-transformations in Yidams they never saw before...
only this little "tip" which a Lama gave at a Dzogchen teaching....
but it seems it was too much.