Is death throught hunger and thirst cause of preta rebirth?

[pael]

Is death throught hunger and thirst cause of preta rebirth? How to avoid craving of water when thirsty? Craving is cause of preta rebirth.

[Sādhaka]

Is death through hunger and thirst cause of preta rebirth?

Not necessarily. Though it could be, because the last thought(s) at death are said to influence one’s next rebirth.

How to avoid craving of water when thirsty?

Start accustoming yourself to dry fasting. Of course the practice of Buddhadharma/Bön is going to be number one. At the same time dry fasting can only help. People are getting crazy benefits from their dry fasts (ketosis, autophagy, supposed increase in stem cell production, etc.). You have to start slow, in general, to do it safely. Depends on the person.

Perhaps begin with intermittent fasting (0 calorie sparkling water is a good hack to make it easier at first), then maybe 48 hour water fasts (something called “Snake Juice” makes this easier too). Then move on to dry fasts.

Being fat adapted or keto adapted makes any type of fasting MUCH easier as well. However once you get use to fasting, I don’t recommend necessarily sticking to an strict ketogenic diet for the rest of your life (but I’m currently on a nutrient-dense raw carnivore diet yet also incorporating raw milk, raw honey, grass-fed ghee, raw cheese, and raw egg yolks; which is still pretty conducive to ketosis even though raw milk & honey has carbs).

People are also reporting benefits from urine therapy or called Shivambu in Ayurveda.

Some western people have worked up to doing 9+ day dry fasts like the Tendai monks of Mt. Hiei.

The longest dry fast I’ve done thus far was only sixteen hours (that is right after I had already been water fasting for about sixteen hours), and my mind was pretty blown about what had already started happening with my body.

Craving is cause of preta rebirth.

In general that is what the Dharma teachings say.

[fckw]

Is death throught hunger and thirst cause of preta rebirth?

No.

How to avoid craving of water when thirsty?

By drinking water.

[PadmaVonSamba]

My understanding is that Pretas (hungry ghosts) experience hunger and thirst because of a habitual mental imprint in a previous life.
Specifically, there are beings for whom nothing is ever quite good enough.
The gravy is always too lumpy. The coffee is always too hot. The color is never the right tint.
And no matter what you do, it's never good enough for them.

This is why, if you give hungry ghosts a wonderful meal, and a thirsty ghost a nice cool drink of water,
what they perceive is a plate full of poop and a glass of pus.

If you were dying of thirst, out in a desert or at sea or whatever,
and someone brought you fresh water, you would think it was the best water you ever tasted.

That's the difference.
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[jet.urgyen]

Is death throught hunger and thirst cause of preta rebirth?

yes.

How to avoid craving of water when thirsty? Craving is cause of preta rebirth.

by practicing meditation, it's tremendously difficult.

[Simon E.]

We are all Pretas at times. Wether Pretas exist as a separate, literal, form of being is less important.
And if we take Refuge and do our practises we need never speculate about their origin.

[haha]

If it is asked from what causes the sufferings of hungry ghosts arise, they arise from acting with miserliness and avarice due to their attachment to outer and inner property.

Three Visions by Ngorchen Konchog Lhundrub

Many preliminary texts from different traditions have clarified this point. It could be miserliness or clinging toward anything. No necessarily physical hunger or thirst. One can reborn as very power hungry ghost due to much attachment towards chanting mantras.

[Simon E.]

If it is asked from what causes the sufferings of hungry ghosts arise, they arise from acting with miserliness and avarice due to their attachment to outer and inner property.

Three Visions by Ngorchen Konchog Lhundrub

Many preliminary texts from different traditions have clarified this point. It could be miserliness or clinging toward anything. No necessarily physical hunger or thirst. One can reborn as very power hungry ghost due to much attachment towards chanting mantras.

Citation please.

[haha]

If it is asked from what causes the sufferings of hungry ghosts arise, they arise from acting with miserliness and avarice due to their attachment to outer and inner property.

Three Visions by Ngorchen Konchog Lhundrub

Many preliminary texts from different traditions have clarified this point. It could be miserliness or clinging toward anything. No necessarily physical hunger or thirst. One can reborn as very power hungry ghost due to much attachment towards chanting mantras.

Citation please.

I cannot provide the citation that I heard from some teachers. But that I have clearly remembered.

However, one example from ChNNR about a hungry ghost, who could transform into certain Yidam, does also justify above point (in some degree).

[fckw]

Is death throught hunger and thirst cause of preta rebirth?

yes.

How to avoid craving of water when thirsty? Craving is cause of preta rebirth.

by practicing meditation, it's tremendously difficult.

It is the karmic imprint that determines your rebirth, not the cause of your death. So, the answer is no.

The idea that this is difficult is a sutra view, neither a tantric nor an ati-Yoga one.

[jet.urgyen]

Is death throught hunger and thirst cause of preta rebirth?

yes.

How to avoid craving of water when thirsty? Craving is cause of preta rebirth.

by practicing meditation, it's tremendously difficult.

It is the karmic imprint that determines your rebirth, not the cause of your death. So, the answer is no.

The idea that this is difficult is a sutra view, neither a tantric nor an ati-Yoga one.

dying in hunger and/or thirst is already a sign of the ripeninng of the karma of preta.

[Simon E.]

yes.



by practicing meditation, it's tremendously difficult.

It is the karmic imprint that determines your rebirth, not the cause of your death. So, the answer is no.

The idea that this is difficult is a sutra view, neither a tantric nor an ati-Yoga one.

dying in hunger and/or thirst is already a sign of the ripeninng of the karma of preta.

You know this how ?

[jet.urgyen]

It is the karmic imprint that determines your rebirth, not the cause of your death. So, the answer is no.

The idea that this is difficult is a sutra view, neither a tantric nor an ati-Yoga one.

dying in hunger and/or thirst is already a sign of the ripeninng of the karma of preta.

You know this how ?

simple inspection. put yourself in the situation, how would it be?

[Simon E.]

That’s speculative. One of the topics, (the way that karma vipaka works for any given individual) that Shakyamuni Buddha said were “ not profitable” to speculate about. Karma vipaka is highly complex and depends on intention and other factors that are beyond conceptual thought.

[jet.urgyen]

That’s speculative. One of the topics, (the way that karma vipaka works for any given individual) that Shakyamuni Buddha said were “ not profitable” to speculate about. Karma vipaka is highly complex and depends on intention and other factors that are beyond conceptual thought.

the case is entirely hipothetical, no?

[PadmaVonSamba]

simple inspection. put yourself in the situation, how would it be?

Then the simple solution would be to always make sure a dying person had a glass of water and a good meal.
Funny, I've never, ever seen this incredibly obvious solution to preventing countless beings from being reborn as pretas ever presented in any teachings.
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[haha]

Sorry to using Lower vehicle text here.

Ghost:
I was an evil monk and insulted others using bad words. I pretended to be a good monk. I did not control what I said to others. However, I did not do any evil actions with my body. Because of this, my body is beautiful but my mouth is full of worms.
You have seen this with your own eyes, Narada Bhante. The wise and compassionate Buddhas have taught about wholesome things. I say the same to you. Never tell lies or break friendships with divisive speech. Then you will be reborn in heaven and enjoy every happiness you desire.
pv3

Pendant:
"Do no evil deed for him,
otherwise you go on bad track you.
If later on you wish well,
then do not kill, then pull back. "
peta:
Although I hear these words,
benevolently mindful of my salvation,
not completely I followed the advice,
pleased with evil, long, stubborn.
But that man who is really wise, again and again
took mine, advised me to restrain me:
"If you can not kill on the day,
then at least keep you in the night. "
So I only killed animals during the day,
and at night I contained myself, restrained.
Now, at night, I can stroll at will,
but during the day, I am consumed with misery.
For the work that has been healing,
I'm living out of it at night,
but during the day, wild dogs want to devour me,
from all sides they are storming on me.
The ones who are constantly connected
the direction of the Will and follow it,
which, I mean, reach the deathless,
the site beyond the design.
pv33

Ghost:
When I was in the human world, I let a monk stay in my house. The monk was very greedy and jealous of his supporters. He insulted good monks.
I listened to that evil monk’s words. Following him, I too insulted good monks. That is the evil deed I did from which I was reborn in the ghost world.
Moggallana Bhante:
You associated with that evil monk thinking that he was a good friend. What happened to the monk after death?
pv43

peta:
I once saw Buddha Sunetta,
who had his sense,
how he sat under a tree.
In sight, free of any fear.
Potsherds I hurl at him,
so that his skull broke.
For this work it matures,
that such suffering comes to me.
Moggallāna:
By law it is misery,
that sixty thousand hammers now
you probably hit your head
with all your might and strength
splinter your skull completely.
pv51

Petavatthu
The Stories of Hungry Ghosts” contains fifty-one stories in verse that illustrate rebirth as a hungry ghost as a result of bad deeds. It is a counterpart to the Vimānavatthu. These are late devotional and moralistic texts with no direct counterparts in other collections.

some of them are from google translation

Avadanasataka can also provide some references.

[jet.urgyen]

simple inspection. put yourself in the situation, how would it be?

Then the simple solution would be to always make sure a dying person had a glass of water and a good meal.
Funny, I've never, ever seen this incredibly obvious solution to preventing countless beings from being reborn as pretas ever presented in any teachings.
.
.
.

you guys are not understanding.

dying in thirst and/or hunger means having pased a time in thirst and/or hunger, a month, a week, a day, etc. Can you imagine how would that be?

Ofcourse everyone dies without drinking nor eating.

[Simon E.]

The state that a person is born into depends on many things and intention at the moment of death is one of the most powerful drivers that brings it about. We could speculate that someone who at the point of death gives their water to another ..like the Tudor Sir Philip Sidney, would set in motion karma vipaka that would override most other aspects of the situation.

But it would remain speculative.

[PadmaVonSamba]

you guys are not understanding.
dying in thirst and/or hunger means having pased a time in thirst and/or hunger, a month, a week, a day, etc. Can you imagine how would that be?
Ofcourse everyone dies without drinking nor eating.

I think you are right: I'm not understanding!

So,are you suggesting that,
because hunger and thirst are the foremost preoccupation of a severely hungry or thirsty person at the moment they die,
that that will be the cause for rebirth as a hungry ghost (preta)?
That's a reasonable suggestion, because the teachings say that if a person dies holding a lot of anger or whatever,
that will cause an unfavorable rebirth.

But I think there is a problem with your assumption.
Firstly, a person may not necessarily take rebirth according to the state of mind,
or even to the general "weight" of the karma from one's immediately previous life.
Rather, rebirth reflects whatever karma is "next heaviest", and also in accordance with various available conditions.
It's sort of when you look at items for sale on line, and you can sort them from highest price to lowest, or lowest to highest, or by size.
So, a person might be experiencing a mind thinking of nothing but how hungry they are when they die of hunger,
however, because two lifetimes ago they practiced a lot of generosity,
maybe next lifetime they are not born as hungry ghosts, but rather as beings who feel wealthy, with no lack of anything.
The reason why, if you die all angry and resentful and bitter, you are reborn in a lower realm state
is because that angry state of mind carries a lot of "karmic weight".
That means, it is generated by a great deal of attachment and ego clinging.

Now, it could certainly be argued that a person whose dying thought is how hungry they are
is also self-absorbed, self-clinging.
But, it is more likely that they would be reborn as an animal, because they are really more in a sort of raw, self-preservation mode
just as a hungry animal thinks only of its next meal.
As I mentioned before, a hungry ghost is really more of someone for whom nothing is ever good enough.
If your dying thought is that your relatives really picked out a cheap-looking coffin for you, then you will likely be a preta next time around!
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