Page 4 of 6

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:43 pm
by Schrödinger’s Yidam
Looking at your two statements above, do you want to venture a guess as to why you can still do everything for "free" in India and Nepal?
Generally the retreats in India/Nepal are all in Tibetan with little heat, no AC, and basic foods. So that rules out most Westerners. Plus Westerners are seen as lightweights that can’t handle retreats, so they’re not made welcome.

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:26 pm
by passel
Point of comparison: I did a 3-month vipassana retreat at Insight Meditation Society in Massachusetts, USA a few years ago for around $3,000 because I pounced on the scholarship opportunities early, which I'm thankful for and it seemed like an ok price. But during the fundraising- excuse me, "dana"- pitch at the end they said the base cost for each person was $10,000 (about 80 people, just sitting in a big room all day for three months apparently costs nearly a million dollars??), which was astonishing and a little disturbing to me. I have never spent that much in 3 months in my life, and more than a few whole years on less than that.

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:35 pm
by Tata1
smcj wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:43 pm
Looking at your two statements above, do you want to venture a guess as to why you can still do everything for "free" in India and Nepal?
Generally the retreats in India/Nepal are all in Tibetan with little heat, no AC, and basic foods. So that rules out most Westerners. Plus Westerners are seen as lightweights that can’t handle retreats, so they’re not made welcome.
Nop. Except for the language thing this doesnt rule out most westerners. This rules out most rich westerners. Wich is the whole point of the thread.

People seem to only consider making efforts as in putting money. It is rridiculous how much comfort they put into some retreats even in india and nepal wich makes everything innesesary expensive and people still complain about food, lodging...etc

How to make dharma more accesible for people is a talk that needs to be talked

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:35 pm
by zenman
Vaktar wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:15 pm One of the signs of successful practitioners is that we don't easily know who they are.
What do you mean by this?

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:43 pm
by zenman
smcj wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:43 pm
Looking at your two statements above, do you want to venture a guess as to why you can still do everything for "free" in India and Nepal?
Generally the retreats in India/Nepal are all in Tibetan with little heat, no AC, and basic foods. So that rules out most Westerners. Plus Westerners are seen as lightweights that can’t handle retreats, so they’re not made welcome.
I heard of a story of a drikung retreatant in India who was given a nice dry and spacious cave in a place that always had good weather. He stayed for few months until he realised it was too easy, his sweet spots weren't poked. He asked for another cave and he got an awful one that was always cold and damp. He started making progress.

Sangyum Kamala said Chatral Rinpoche did all his retreats without the above mentioned comforts. Makes one think...

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:44 pm
by zenman
passel wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:26 pm Point of comparison: I did a 3-month vipassana retreat at Insight Meditation Society in Massachusetts, USA a few years ago for around $3,000 because I pounced on the scholarship opportunities early, which I'm thankful for and it seemed like an ok price. But during the fundraising- excuse me, "dana"- pitch at the end they said the base cost for each person was $10,000 (about 80 people, just sitting in a big room all day for three months apparently costs nearly a million dollars??), which was astonishing and a little disturbing to me. I have never spent that much in 3 months in my life, and more than a few whole years on less than that.
Greedy frak bastards. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:24 pm
by Schrödinger’s Yidam
Sangyum Kamala said Chatral Rinpoche did all his retreats without the above mentioned comforts. Makes one think...
Admittedly the following is a second hand story. It comes from Shenpen Hookam and three of her students.

In 2016 they came back from a visit to Nepal. The said that there were a group of Kagyu Nuns doing a Mahamudra retreat with their meditation boxes in the open air on a hillside. The had umbrellas over the top of them to keep rain off but no walls or anything else to protect them from the elements. Harsh.

I guess they really wanted to test how unattached they could be from their thoughts. That’s way beyond what I aspire to. Heck, to me checking my emails takes priority over practice!

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:03 pm
by zenman
You spoiled brats! Like this! :guns: :guns: :guns:

https://vimeo.com/23097760

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:27 pm
by heart
zenman wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:03 pm You spoiled brats! Like this! :guns: :guns: :guns:

https://vimeo.com/23097760
They don't live in those, they live in the monastery below. They just practice in there.

/magnus

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:57 pm
by zenman
Bloody wimps. I bet they have hot chocolate in thermoses and heaters and all...

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:32 pm
by Schrödinger’s Yidam
heart wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:27 pm
zenman wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:03 pm You spoiled brats! Like this! :guns: :guns: :guns:

https://vimeo.com/23097760
They don't live in those, they live in the monastery below. They just practice in there.

/magnus
You’re familiar with the situation?

I guess that counts as a verification.

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:10 pm
by heart
smcj wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:32 pm
heart wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:27 pm
zenman wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:03 pm You spoiled brats! Like this! :guns: :guns: :guns:

https://vimeo.com/23097760
They don't live in those, they live in the monastery below. They just practice in there.

/magnus
You’re familiar with the situation?

I guess that counts as a verification.
Well, lets say I know something about life. :smile: Their gompa: http://gebchakgonpa.org

/magnus

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:11 pm
by Nemo
smcj wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:24 pm
Sangyum Kamala said Chatral Rinpoche did all his retreats without the above mentioned comforts. Makes one think...
Admittedly the following is a second hand story. It comes from Shenpen Hookam and three of her students.

In 2016 they came back from a visit to Nepal. The said that there were a group of Kagyu Nuns doing a Mahamudra retreat with their meditation boxes in the open air on a hillside. The had umbrellas over the top of them to keep rain off but no walls or anything else to protect them from the elements. Harsh.

I guess they really wanted to test how unattached they could be from their thoughts. That’s way beyond what I aspire to. Heck, to me checking my emails takes priority over practice!
Living so roughly takes many years off your life though. Bad winters can be especially hard. Being a corporate slave is no picnic either. Becoming a cog in someone else's machine warps the mind in strange ways. Being a useless individual is good advice. Become useful and it will be much harder to.escape

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:13 am
by passel
zenman wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:44 pm
passel wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:26 pm Point of comparison: I did a 3-month vipassana retreat at Insight Meditation Society in Massachusetts, USA a few years ago for around $3,000 because I pounced on the scholarship opportunities early, which I'm thankful for and it seemed like an ok price. But during the fundraising- excuse me, "dana"- pitch at the end they said the base cost for each person was $10,000 (about 80 people, just sitting in a big room all day for three months apparently costs nearly a million dollars??), which was astonishing and a little disturbing to me. I have never spent that much in 3 months in my life, and more than a few whole years on less than that.
Greedy frak bastards. :shock: :shock: :shock:
I honestly don't think it's greed, I think it's just not having a clue.

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:13 am
by lama tsewang
I just read an advertisement online for the sukhasiddhi foundation on their
Website .they are holding an advanced mahamudra retreat,that's not residential , and that's being held in their Center, and they asking people for 600 dollars for this .This kind of thing makes me incensed.is mahamudra a commodity to be sold. It changes the teaching.
PLEase Comment.

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:11 am
by Johnny Dangerous
lama tsewang wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:13 am I just read an advertisement online for the sukhasiddhi foundation on their
Website .they are holding an advanced mahamudra retreat,that's not residential , and that's being held in their Center, and they asking people for 600 dollars for this .This kind of thing makes me incensed.is mahamudra a commodity to be sold. It changes the teaching.
PLEase Comment.
I get it, and i'm not saying I support it, it seems very steep to me, in fact pretty ridiculous.

I wonder though, how "should" it be? What is the correct amount for four days of a teaching like this? What should people who run Dharma centers aim for, breaking even, supporting their activities, some combination of the two?

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 am
by lama tsewang
I think , that when you charge exorbitant amounts, you change the teaching,you become a business with something that you're selling. We, in all our behaviour, should embody the teachings. Does the end justify the means.

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:13 am
by Johnny Dangerous
lama tsewang wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 am I think , that when you charge exorbitant amounts, you change the teaching,you become a business with something that you're selling. We, in all our behaviour, should embody the teachings. Does the end justify the means.
Yeah, yeah, i'm sure we can all agree in theory, but it doesn't answer my question:

What is an appropriate amount for a course like that, if this is outrageous (which i think might agree that it is)...

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:39 am
by jake
I believe some context might be helpful. The Sukhasiddhi Foundation is located in Fairfax California, just north of San Francisco. Cost of living is said to be over twice the national average and median (not average) home price is higher than both the National and California price. I suspect this has some impact on their operating costs.

Re: Cost of retreats USA vs. EUR

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:45 am
by tingdzin
Good thread. Glad somebody is complaining about the commodification of the Dharma.