Well, maybe in our deep inner self we all like spewing a bit around
and just profited from this spontaneously arisen autocorrect
Not offended, I find your posts thought provoking even if ultimately I am hesitant to agree.pemachophel wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:11 pm IME, spending a lot of time with a Teacher helps pickle you in the Dharma. This happens by watching how the Teacher conducts His or Her life, constantly being reminded to practice, and, yes, constantly being corrected when one is not doing something right. Correction may be gentle or not so gentle. It may be extremely tiring and irksome, and you may sometimes want to run away. (I ran away twice.) But, also IME, you learn so much more about the Dharma and its practice than those who have not had this experience as well as gain a solid foundation most who are left to their own devices commonly do not lay. If the Lama is good, there's no hiding one's kleshas. If the Lama is Realized, meditating with Them while They are meditating is a whole other experience. Constantly having you progress in meditation checked and corrected -- for me, invaluable. In Tibetan, this is called gom-tri.
As for thinking one does not have the opportunity to be in such a close relationship with a Lama, doesn't that really mean one is not willing to move or do whatever else is necessary to make that happen? I know I had to move to exactly the last place in the world I wanted to move to make this happen.
Sorry once again if this offends anyone. Just my personal experience and opinion.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Yeah actually, many times when I visited the local lamas, I noticed people just talking to them about their everyday concerns (non-Dharma related) and the lamas often were happily chatting with them, but some didn't seem as interested when I said I wanted to learn study in depth stuff like the Bodhicaryavatara and lead up to three roots practice etc. Some were frank that they were not "teaching lamas" -- they were sent by the parent monastery to be in charge of pujas and communicate with the local community, but they were not khenpos or something. They suggested I read books and follow webcasts. Still, I found it disappointing.yagmort wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:30 am MiphamFan, bro, that's perfectly fine. i feel pretty the same. it's just a matter of looking further to find a teacher whom you will 'click' with. it may not happen as fast as we'd like though. also, i feel that situation is more about students than teachers. many western buddhists like to participate in some sort of retreats and teachings because since those teachings are "buddhism" that way they can feel themselves as "buddhists" but without any serious efforts. for quite a lot of people it's more of an entertainment event with an opportunity to be close to a buddhist master, selfies with him and instagram thing. teachers feel it so they probably don't find much meaning to be strict and profound since very few ask for it. i am sure they will give you their utmost attention as soon as they see your sincere interest and resolve.
once my teacher told me "there is Tara puja today you may visit if you want", i said "i dunno Rinpoche i don't find ritual side of things to be all that important, if i could meditate i'd rather spend 1 hour for meditation than 1 hour for a puja. but i may be wrong and biased, so if you think it will be good if i join i'll join" and he said "it's actually better that you do you ngondro". i stayed near his place for half an year and yet i spent perhaps less than a week counting those days when i had a discussions with him. when i earlier said being close to a teacher doesn't mean you have to have a chat with him everyday. it just means you can actually talk to your teacher when you have doubts, questions and so forth. i am against "hey, buddy" approach and i feel somewhat awkward when i just sit next to him without anything related to Dharma on my mind.
There is no need to be sorry for sharing the truth.
conebeckham wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:25 pm I suppose these days it is relatively rare for many.
It is unfortunate that this is the case.
Residential Dharma Centers with resident Lamas offer an experience that more closely resembles traditional Guru/Chela relations IMO. Living in a community with practitioners, and spending time with Gurus aside from in the context of formalized rituals, is valuable in many ways, especially for beginning students. At some point a student may be better served by being on his or her own, but I think the relationship formed with a guru early on in one's development is critical to the student's development. Perhaps that's just reflecting my personal experience, however.
If it's not too private, could the two of you as senior practitioners share a bit about how you formed such relationships with your gurus? I don't know if the way I approached the lamas I wrote about was the wrong way or something.pemachophel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:56 pm "Residential Dharma Centers with resident Lamas offer an experience that more closely resembles traditional Guru/Chela relations IMO. Living in a community with practitioners, and spending time with Gurus aside from in the context of formalized rituals, is valuable in many ways, especially for beginning students. At some point a student may be better served by being on his or her own, but I think the relationship formed with a guru early on in one's development is critical to the student's development. Perhaps that's just reflecting my personal experience, however."
As usual,
Thanks for sharing. Wonderful story, and very inspiring.
I used to hope to have such an experience, but no such luck (karma) so far. Nice to hear that it works out that way for some people.pemachophel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:42 pm As soon as we met (at His house in Delhi's Defense Colony), He said He had been waiting for me. I immediately recognized Him as my Guru. He gave me refuge and Bodhisatva vows on His veranda along with a very short, very special ngon-dro revealed by Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche.
{I don’t actually disagree w anything in your post BUT:}
...or it just means you need to continue practising a little longer.passel wrote: ↑Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:52 am{I don’t actually disagree w anything in your post BUT:}
Doesn’t that mean though that if you’re not a buddha yourself by now, then either a) you’re not practicing sincerely, or b) your guru is not a living siddha, or c) you’re not receiving the essential teachings.
Kind of puts you in a triple-bind- either you’re a big phony, or your teacher is, or he’s not letting you in on the good stuff and maybe never will. It just seems like you could just piss away so many mountains of merit/positive karmas just buzzing around with a fundamental, self-imposed view of your own deficiency- doesn’t even seem to accord w the Mahayana as near as I can tell. Chan would call that, “binding yourself without rope.” I can’t think of a comparable Tibetan metaphor
that's true, ime, irreversible devotion based on trust, confidence based on facts, makes things to happen. this is not blind faith.zerwe wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:55 am I doubt that this is a Gelug, Vajrayana, or Mahayana specific view on Guru devotion, but LZR always seems to place a much greater emphasis and importance on the level of devotion rather than closeness of contact when it comes to receiving the blessings of the guru. I came across this today and it made me think of this thread—
Receiving blessings from the guru depends not on our physically being with the guru but on how much devotion toward the guru we have. Even if we spend our whole life physically living with our guru, it’s not certain that we will receive his blessings. If our mind is empty of devotion, we won’t receive any blessings, just as a flower hidden under a rock won’t grow because it can’t receive the rays of the sun. On the other hand, even if we are physically distant from our guru, if we have great devotion we will be mentally close to him and receive his blessings-like a flower in open sunlight.—Heart of th Path
With that said I have felt that the experience and connection does seem to intensify greatly when one is in close orbit to one’s teacher or in a retreat setting, etc...
Shaun
zerwe wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:55 am I doubt that this is a Gelug, Vajrayana, or Mahayana specific view on Guru devotion, but LZR always seems to place a much greater emphasis and importance on the level of devotion rather than closeness of contact when it comes to receiving the blessings of the guru. I came across this today and it made me think of this thread—
Receiving blessings from the guru depends not on our physically being with the guru but on how much devotion toward the guru we have. Even if we spend our whole life physically living with our guru, it’s not certain that we will receive his blessings. If our mind is empty of devotion, we won’t receive any blessings, just as a flower hidden under a rock won’t grow because it can’t receive the rays of the sun. On the other hand, even if we are physically distant from our guru, if we have great devotion we will be mentally close to him and receive his blessings-like a flower in open sunlight.—Heart of th Path
With that said I have felt that the experience and connection does seem to intensify greatly when one is in close orbit to one’s teacher or in a retreat setting, etc...
Shaun