Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

dzogchungpa wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:27 pm
smcj wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:20 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:12 pm


Which law firm or PR manager are you referring to? I can't seem to find anything about 'Hilgitz'.
The law firm is “An Olive Branch”. Their white paper:
https://www.an-olive-branch.org/wp-cont ... -Power.pdf

They were named earlier in this thread from this link:

https://www.lionsroar.com/shambhala-lea ... legations/

That's not a law firm.
They are lawyers. It is a law firm. Read the link I gave.

If they are there it’s because Shambhala has thrown in the towel. What they do is roto-rooter the organization and humiliate the teacher on behalf of the victims.
Last edited by Schrödinger’s Yidam on Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by dzogchungpa »

smcj wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:30 pm They are lawyers. It is a law firm. Read the link I gave.

I read it, the law firm is based in Halifax, Olive Branch is not. Also, what is the connection with Weinstein?
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by rekixatu »

Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:31 pm :offtopic:

Are the Sakyapas the only one of the four schools who hasn't been shaken by a major controversy "recently"?
Define 'recent'.

Lama Choedak Rinpoche Apologises For Engaging in Multiple Affairs

http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 04,0,0,1,0
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

I read it, the law firm is based in Halifax, Olive Branch is not.
Shambhala is in Halifax. The sentence is badly written.
In its letter to the Shambhala community, the council also announced that it has hired a law firm in Halifax, Nova Scotia, the group’s international headquarters, to do an independent investigation of the allegations against Sakyong Mipham, which were made most prominently in a report last week from Buddhist Project Sunshine.
Also, what is the connection with Weinstein?
None that I know of.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Motova »

rekixatu wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:37 pm
Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:31 pm :offtopic:

Are the Sakyapas the only one of the four schools who hasn't been shaken by a major controversy "recently"?
Define 'recent'.

Lama Choedak Rinpoche Apologises For Engaging in Multiple Affairs

http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 04,0,0,1,0
That does not seem to be on the same level.
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

smcj wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:20 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:12 pm
DCEA108 wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:55 am... hiring the law firm and Harvey Weinstein's former spokesperson as a PR manager (Hilgitz) ...

Which law firm or PR manager are you referring to? I can't seem to find anything about 'Hilgitz'.
The law firm is “An Olive Branch”. Their white paper:
https://www.an-olive-branch.org/wp-cont ... -Power.pdf

They were named earlier in this thread from this link:

https://www.lionsroar.com/shambhala-lea ... legations/
It doesn't look like a law firm to me, but some sort of mediation service. Big difference there, whatever one thinks about the entity itself.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by dzogchungpa »

smcj wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:00 pm
I read it, the law firm is based in Halifax, Olive Branch is not.
Shambhala is in Halifax. The sentence is badly written.
In its letter to the Shambhala community, the council also announced that it has hired a law firm in Halifax, Nova Scotia, the group’s international headquarters, to do an independent investigation of the allegations against Sakyong Mipham, which were made most prominently in a report last week from Buddhist Project Sunshine.
Also, what is the connection with Weinstein?
None that I know of.

OK, I looked into it. Apparently the law firm is Wickwire Holm and the PR firm is Hiltzik Strategies. It should be noted that the connection between Hiltzik and Weinstein was before 2008.
See e.g.: https://thinkprogress.org/leadership-of ... 979aadc3b/
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hiltzik
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:39 pm
smcj wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:00 pm
I read it, the law firm is based in Halifax, Olive Branch is not.
Shambhala is in Halifax. The sentence is badly written.
In its letter to the Shambhala community, the council also announced that it has hired a law firm in Halifax, Nova Scotia, the group’s international headquarters, to do an independent investigation of the allegations against Sakyong Mipham, which were made most prominently in a report last week from Buddhist Project Sunshine.
Also, what is the connection with Weinstein?
None that I know of.

OK, I looked into it. Apparently the law firm is Wickwire Holm and the PR firm is Hiltzik Strategies. It should be noted that the connection between Hiltzik and Weinstein was before 2008.
See e.g.: https://thinkprogress.org/leadership-of ... 979aadc3b/
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Hiltzik
Hiltzik was a Miramax employee for nearly a decade.
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by dzogchungpa »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:18 pmHiltzik was a Miramax employee for nearly a decade.

Yes. So what?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by heart »

Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:27 pm
rekixatu wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:37 pm
Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:31 pm :offtopic:

Are the Sakyapas the only one of the four schools who hasn't been shaken by a major controversy "recently"?
Define 'recent'.

Lama Choedak Rinpoche Apologises For Engaging in Multiple Affairs

http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 04,0,0,1,0
That does not seem to be on the same level.
No, what is the difference if I may ask?

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Motova »

heart wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:49 pm
Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:27 pm
rekixatu wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:37 pm

Define 'recent'.

Lama Choedak Rinpoche Apologises For Engaging in Multiple Affairs

http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 04,0,0,1,0
That does not seem to be on the same level.
No, what is the difference if I may ask?

/magnus
CT and his successors had public support endorsements from the heads of Kagyu and Nyingma.

Moreover, they abused alcohol. They couldn't even keep the precepts... what about the vows and samayas?

The lama linked above just had some affairs with some students, his negative impact on Dharma is much less than Shambhala's.
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Josef »

Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:10 pm
heart wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:49 pm
Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:27 pm

That does not seem to be on the same level.
No, what is the difference if I may ask?

/magnus
CT and his successors had public support endorsements from the heads of Kagyu and Nyingma.

Moreover, they abused alcohol. They couldn't even keep the precepts... what about the vows and samayas?

The lama linked above just had some affairs with some students, his negative impact on Dharma is much less than Shambhala's.
They also had public condemnation of their actions from lineage masters.
There is a telling passage in Compassionate Action that is pretty clearly an example of this.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Josef »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:38 pm
smcj wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:20 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:12 pm


Which law firm or PR manager are you referring to? I can't seem to find anything about 'Hilgitz'.
The law firm is “An Olive Branch”. Their white paper:
https://www.an-olive-branch.org/wp-cont ... -Power.pdf

They were named earlier in this thread from this link:

https://www.lionsroar.com/shambhala-lea ... legations/
It doesn't look like a law firm to me, but some sort of mediation service. Big difference there, whatever one thinks about the entity itself.
Ive interacted with them before.
They are a mediation service but have lawyers associated with them.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:21 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:18 pmHiltzik was a Miramax employee for nearly a decade.

Yes. So what?
He knew what HW was up to.
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Norwegian »

Josef wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:19 pm
Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:10 pm
heart wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:49 pm

No, what is the difference if I may ask?

/magnus
CT and his successors had public support endorsements from the heads of Kagyu and Nyingma.

Moreover, they abused alcohol. They couldn't even keep the precepts... what about the vows and samayas?

The lama linked above just had some affairs with some students, his negative impact on Dharma is much less than Shambhala's.
They also had public condemnation of their actions from lineage masters.
There is a telling passage in Compassionate Action that is pretty clearly an example of this.
"There was an incident a few years ago where a photograph of a late lama was placed in Rinpoche's room (most likely by some disciple of this lama), and when Rinpoche saw the photo, he said, "This person was an alcoholic and had broken his precepts, don't leave his photo in my room; take it away!" The attendant removed the photo from its wooden frame, and found another photo beneath, so Rinpoche asked who was in that photo and was told it was the son of the late lama, who was also a heavy drinker. Rinpoche said, "Like father, like son. Take away both of their photos!"
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The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by heart »

Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:10 pm
heart wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:49 pm
Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:27 pm

That does not seem to be on the same level.
No, what is the difference if I may ask?

/magnus
CT and his successors had public support endorsements from the heads of Kagyu and Nyingma.

Moreover, they abused alcohol. They couldn't even keep the precepts... what about the vows and samayas?

The lama linked above just had some affairs with some students, his negative impact on Dharma is much less than Shambhala's.
I think the sexual aspect is the main aspect actually, and that makes it quite similar.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Josef »

Norwegian wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:44 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:19 pm
Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:10 pm

CT and his successors had public support endorsements from the heads of Kagyu and Nyingma.

Moreover, they abused alcohol. They couldn't even keep the precepts... what about the vows and samayas?

The lama linked above just had some affairs with some students, his negative impact on Dharma is much less than Shambhala's.
They also had public condemnation of their actions from lineage masters.
There is a telling passage in Compassionate Action that is pretty clearly an example of this.
"There was an incident a few years ago where a photograph of a late lama was placed in Rinpoche's room (most likely by some disciple of this lama), and when Rinpoche saw the photo, he said, "This person was an alcoholic and had broken his precepts, don't leave his photo in my room; take it away!" The attendant removed the photo from its wooden frame, and found another photo beneath, so Rinpoche asked who was in that photo and was told it was the son of the late lama, who was also a heavy drinker. Rinpoche said, "Like father, like son. Take away both of their photos!"
That's the one.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by chimechodra »

Norwegian wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:44 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:19 pm
Motova wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:10 pm

CT and his successors had public support endorsements from the heads of Kagyu and Nyingma.

Moreover, they abused alcohol. They couldn't even keep the precepts... what about the vows and samayas?

The lama linked above just had some affairs with some students, his negative impact on Dharma is much less than Shambhala's.
They also had public condemnation of their actions from lineage masters.
There is a telling passage in Compassionate Action that is pretty clearly an example of this.
"There was an incident a few years ago where a photograph of a late lama was placed in Rinpoche's room (most likely by some disciple of this lama), and when Rinpoche saw the photo, he said, "This person was an alcoholic and had broken his precepts, don't leave his photo in my room; take it away!" The attendant removed the photo from its wooden frame, and found another photo beneath, so Rinpoche asked who was in that photo and was told it was the son of the late lama, who was also a heavy drinker. Rinpoche said, "Like father, like son. Take away both of their photos!"
The pronouns here are very confusing, is this Chatral Rinpoche telling attendants to remove a photo of CTR/SMR? Or are we talking about the Australian lama? I'm assuming the former.
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Norwegian wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:44 pm
"There was an incident a few years ago where a photograph of a late lama was placed in Rinpoche's room (most likely by some disciple of this lama), and when Rinpoche saw the photo, he said, "This person was an alcoholic and had broken his precepts, don't leave his photo in my room; take it away!" The attendant removed the photo from its wooden frame, and found another photo beneath, so Rinpoche asked who was in that photo and was told it was the son of the late lama, who was also a heavy drinker. Rinpoche said, "Like father, like son. Take away both of their photos!"
That is most interesting. It seems it can be only them right? Also are there any other passages? This is quite a new thing to me as I have usually just found quite a positive attitudes to Chogyam Trungpa (except for Ole Nydahl who disliked him).
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Josef »

Miroku wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:56 pm
Norwegian wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:44 pm
"There was an incident a few years ago where a photograph of a late lama was placed in Rinpoche's room (most likely by some disciple of this lama), and when Rinpoche saw the photo, he said, "This person was an alcoholic and had broken his precepts, don't leave his photo in my room; take it away!" The attendant removed the photo from its wooden frame, and found another photo beneath, so Rinpoche asked who was in that photo and was told it was the son of the late lama, who was also a heavy drinker. Rinpoche said, "Like father, like son. Take away both of their photos!"
That is most interesting. It seems it can be only them right? Also are there any other passages? This is quite a new thing to me as I have usually just found quite a positive attitudes to Chogyam Trungpa (except for Ole Nydahl who disliked him).
I think it's clearly referring to Trungpa and Sakyong.
Most lamas are disinclined to be as honest and strict as Chatral Rinpoche was. His direct lineage has a history of not pulling punches and strictly adhering to the ethical disciplines.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.
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