Mipham Rinpoche channels Weinstein:

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Virgo
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Virgo »

Virgo wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:14 pm
Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm
Edit: no not teaching her dharma...that he was "practicing" dharma for himself.
Sexually abusing the vulnerable is "practicing dharma" for yourself? I did not know that.

Kevin...
Who should practice Dharma this way? All who have complete ngondro?
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Virgo wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:18 pm
Virgo wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:14 pm
Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm
Edit: no not teaching her dharma...that he was "practicing" dharma for himself.
Sexually abusing the vulnerable is "practicing dharma" for yourself? I did not know that.

Kevin...
Who should practice Dharma this way? All who have complete ngondro?
:lol:

It's a discussion to be had in another thread. However, Mipham's case is not unique.
Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Malcolm »

Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:16 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:15 pmFor a vajrayana practioners, sleeping with ordinary partners who have not been ripened by empowerment is sexual musconduct
Is there a reference I can look up?

In Mipham's case, had these women received empowerments from him?
It is not clear these women were his vajra disciples. Even so, gurus are not permitted to rape their students.
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that name does not exist."
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Virgo
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Virgo »

Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:19 pm

:lol:
Rape in Dharma communities is funny now...

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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Malcolm, I don't see your reference in Kongtrul's book. Can you quote it?
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by XXIlluminatingVoid72 »

It is an error that when one is realized, they are beyond karma. This is the falsehood that this is propogated under as far as I can tell. Padmasambhava was clear about this, "My realization is higher than the sky, But my observance of karma is finer than grains of flour".
Malcolm
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Malcolm »

Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:29 pm Malcolm, I don't see your reference in Kongtrul's book. Can you quote it?
Look at the 14 root and 8 branch samayas.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Pema Karpo cites the following lines of the Subahu Tantra concerning unworthy
actions:
A mantrin should always shun
Offensive speech, slander,
Sexual relations with married women,
Just "married women" here.
...(3) Not to engage in adultery means to abstain from sexual relations
with an inappropriate partner, such as another’s spouse,
whether or not one has taken the vow of celibacy;
Again.
...(2) Not to engage in sexual union with the consort of one’s
master;
Again. They all seem to be saying "untaken" women is fine.
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Jangchup Donden
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Jangchup Donden »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:15 pm
Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:07 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:06 pm
The tantras very clearly recognize the existence of sexual misconduct, and samaya breakage through relying on unripemed partners.
What do they say "sexual misconduct" is?
For a vajrayana practioners, sleeping with ordinary partners who have not been ripened by empowerment is sexual musconduct, beyond that, the standard definitions apply. For example, the rape allegation against Mipham would be covered under this.
Just a clarification on this -- so if you're a Vajrayana practicioner and are married to a non-Buddhist wife/husband, then having sex with them would be sexual misconduct?
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

PSM wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm I don't know if you can deal with being this woke, but I hear they're all lizards. In fact I bet you're all lizards.
Yes they are. And they are ruled by illuminaty who have their base on the moon where ghost of Richard Nixon leads it all as a form of vengance for the Watergate.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Karma Dorje »

Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:32 pm
Pema Karpo cites the following lines of the Subahu Tantra concerning unworthy
actions:
A mantrin should always shun
Offensive speech, slander,
Sexual relations with married women,
Just "married women" here.
...(3) Not to engage in adultery means to abstain from sexual relations
with an inappropriate partner, such as another’s spouse,
whether or not one has taken the vow of celibacy;
Again.
...(2) Not to engage in sexual union with the consort of one’s
master;
Again. They all seem to be saying "untaken" women is fine.
You should think about what it means to "despise women, who are the embodiment of wisdom". If you are even a Vajrayana practitioner.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Karma Dorje wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:44 pm
Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:32 pm
Pema Karpo cites the following lines of the Subahu Tantra concerning unworthy
actions:
A mantrin should always shun
Offensive speech, slander,
Sexual relations with married women,
Just "married women" here.
...(3) Not to engage in adultery means to abstain from sexual relations
with an inappropriate partner, such as another’s spouse,
whether or not one has taken the vow of celibacy;
Again.
...(2) Not to engage in sexual union with the consort of one’s
master;
Again. They all seem to be saying "untaken" women is fine.
You should think about what it means to "despise women, who are the embodiment of wisdom". If you are even a Vajrayana practitioner.
The question is: To him, was that despising women? To us, of course. Maybe it wasn't clear to him.
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Josef
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Josef »

Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:46 pm
Karma Dorje wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:44 pm
Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:32 pm

Just "married women" here.



Again.



Again. They all seem to be saying "untaken" women is fine.
You should think about what it means to "despise women, who are the embodiment of wisdom". If you are even a Vajrayana practitioner.
The question is: To him, was that despising women? To us, of course. Maybe it wasn't clear to him.
Again, you’re suggesting that he’s an idiot.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.
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Grigoris
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Grigoris »

Better be careful about how this proceeds, otherwise it will go the direction of other related threads.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Karma Dorje »

Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:46 pm The question is: To him, was that despising women? To us, of course. Maybe it wasn't clear to him.
Ignorance is not an excuse. The dude was raised in North America in a highly media-literate environment.
Sakyong: Do you want to sleep with me?
Girl: No.
Sakyong: So I guess dinner and a blow job are out of the question?
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Josef wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:50 pm
Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:46 pm
Karma Dorje wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:44 pm

You should think about what it means to "despise women, who are the embodiment of wisdom". If you are even a Vajrayana practitioner.
The question is: To him, was that despising women? To us, of course. Maybe it wasn't clear to him.
Again, you’re suggesting that he’s an idiot.
No, because (1) he doesn't read minds. Those women were suffering for sure, but we now know because they aired it out later. (2) sex with women is fine in the tantras, and I suspect no one taught him how to properly deal with sexual desires, women, etc. in the context of sexual practice.
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Karma Dorje wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:52 pm
Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:46 pm The question is: To him, was that despising women? To us, of course. Maybe it wasn't clear to him.
Ignorance is not an excuse. The dude was raised in North America in a highly media-literate environment.
Sakyong: Do you want to sleep with me?
Girl: No.
Sakyong: So I guess dinner and a blow job are out of the question?
I didn't read the whole report, but did any woman actually confront him with how she felt about it all?
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Josef
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Josef »

Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:53 pm
Josef wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:50 pm
Snowbear wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:46 pm

The question is: To him, was that despising women? To us, of course. Maybe it wasn't clear to him.
Again, you’re suggesting that he’s an idiot.
No, because (1) he doesn't read minds. Those women were suffering for sure, but we now know because they aired it out later. (2) sex with women is fine in the tantras, and I suspect no one taught him how to properly deal with sexual desires, women, etc. in the context of sexual practice.
Wow, you really think he was oblivious to the suffering he was inflicting at the time?
That confirms that you 1, think he’s an idiot and 2, suggests that you think he may be a sociopath (which I don’t necessarily disagree with).
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Snowbear »

Josef wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:59 pm Wow, you really think he was oblivious to the suffering he was inflicting at the time?
Yes. It's called the Illusion of transparency.
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Re: Mipham Rinpoche channels Wienstein:

Post by Grigoris »

And to be crystal clear: Two people are already on enforced holidays from DW for the last thread. Don't make me score a hat trick.

Keep it civil and on topic.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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