Wrathful Black Hayagriva

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jkarlins
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by jkarlins »

Grigoris wrote:
jkarlins wrote:It's probably hard to understand why people can be so hard line about getting permission for practices.
It's just the way Vajrayana rolls... If somebody wants to practice in the Vajrayana, they are just going to have to get used to this attitude.
Yup.
Tirisilex
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Tirisilex »

Soma999 wrote:There are some situations that may be helpful to be approched with good therapists.

But please, consider maybe being helped, of course with "official therapist" but also some alternative therapy, considering you knock at the right door, can be very helpful.
I'm sorry but I hate it when I get these kinds of responses.. I am working with a psychiatrist and a therapist. I have been for a very long time.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Tirisilex wrote:
Soma999 wrote:There are some situations that may be helpful to be approched with good therapists.

But please, consider maybe being helped, of course with "official therapist" but also some alternative therapy, considering you knock at the right door, can be very helpful.
I'm sorry but I hate it when I get these kinds of responses.. I am working with a psychiatrist and a therapist. I have been for a very long time.
We are also, sorry, but we cannot know if you do get your dose of therapy and treatment. You know. It is only sane to recommend a sick person some form of medicine. We are not crazy to tell you that only doing some practice will heal you.

However back to your original post, well do you have a lama? I would consider asking some lama you trust. You are in a quite special situation and maybe there are some special instructions available for people in your position. However for now I would do metta meditation, if I were you. I remember reading somewhere that it helps greatly when dealing with some mental disorders.


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Tirisilex
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Tirisilex »

I have been doing the Medicine Buddha practice for years and I have found it quite beneficial. I've seen my negative thinking be washed away after doing the practice.
jkarlins
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by jkarlins »

That's excellent! These practices are so powerful, and we are so so lucky.

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Soma999
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Soma999 »

One lama told Hayagriva is Chenrezig, but also the wrathful form of Medicine Buddha.

Can one do it without empowerment ? I'm no lama, i have no special qualification to answer your question.

But i think it's important to understand what this deity represent, and to know you should not fear because this deity is not external, but one with your wisdom mind.

I think Lama Zopa, i say i think because i talk from memory, said to some people (on his website) that if they don't have initiation, they do not visualise themself as the deity, but see the deity in front of them. To verify anyway.

When i talk about therapist, it's also, if you can, see alternative therapist, because some are really skilful and can do great things. They do not necessarily are buddhist. They can be anything. But they should be compassionate and skillfull in what they do.

Sometime fighting something feeds it. It's sometime better to switch attention so as to stop feeding the negativity. Some persons even embrace there suffering, as as soon as it's accepted, it's transformed. Resistance bring persistance. But it's delicate. It needs to be really understood correctly. That's why i told you : see persons in flesh and blood, skillful, and see with them. We are not dosctors, and we don't know you.
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by pemachophel »

"Can one do it without empowerment ?"

No.
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conebeckham
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by conebeckham »

Medicine Buddha is a practice connected to both Sutra and Tantra, and I have heard that it is okay to recite the Medicine Buddha practices without empowerment, due to this, but it's always good to get the empowerment.

Hayagriva, and esp. the Black forms, are more connected with Tantra and so would require empowerment. I seem to recall hearing that Hayagriva makes an appearance in the sutras somewhere, but I don't think that means one can "practice" the self-generation without the empowerment.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Lobsang Chojor »

Soma999 wrote:I think Lama Zopa, i say i think because i talk from memory, said to some people (on his website) that if they don't have initiation, they do not visualise themself as the deity, but see the deity in front of them. To verify anyway.
Usually when Lama Zopa Rinpoche talks about this, it is specific advice from the guru so it's not intended for everyone.

We discussed this at my centre maybe 2 years ago, basically Lama Zopa Rinpoche's advice is that you can do front visualisation without empowerment but only as part of group practice and certain circumstances.
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Tirisilex
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Tirisilex »

As far as the Medicine Buddha goes. I did once have a Lama and he taught me the medicine Buddha practice... Does that qualify as empowerment?
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Grigoris
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Grigoris »

Tirisilex wrote:As far as the Medicine Buddha goes. I did once have a Lama and he taught me the medicine Buddha practice... Does that qualify as empowerment?
No, but that should not stop you from practicing. :smile:
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conebeckham
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by conebeckham »

Grigoris wrote:
Tirisilex wrote:As far as the Medicine Buddha goes. I did once have a Lama and he taught me the medicine Buddha practice... Does that qualify as empowerment?
No, but that should not stop you from practicing. :smile:
I'd agree. If a qualified teacher went through a practice instruction with you, in this instance I think it's clearly an authorization for that practice.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Karinos
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Karinos »

Wrathful Black Hayagriva practice from Dudjom Tersar is no joke! Without going into details - this practice is one of the most wrathful sadhanas I've seen in Tibetan Buddhism - so I really believe it should be practiced only with all permissions from Lama. Not only empowerment and lung is required but detailed explanations from Lama and previous solid meditation experience - possibly Ngondro finished. Mind must be stable, specious and able to deal with all sort of distractions by power of meditation and compassion.
The fact that some Lamas say this practice helps which mental illnesses comes from believe/recognition that some mental illnesses are cause by specific classes of spirits. This practice helps to "deal" with misguided spirits.

I've met few friends in my Dharma life who had mental illness and specifically with Schizophrenia. It requires regular medication and peaceful practices which help to accumulate a lot of merits - Avalokitesvara, Medicine Buddha, Tara etc. so I believe what your Lama gave you (Medicine Buddha practice) was really a good advice.
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Crazywisdom »

Tirisilex wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:51 am I managed to find an Intensely Wrathful Black Hayagriva daily practice. I don't want to do the practice until I can get some advice on this. According to the site you do not need an empowerment to do this practice.. I'm just a little worried about doing a wrathful buddha practice. I'm kind of worried the wrathfulness will absorb into me.. If that is even possible. A little input would be nice.
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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

Tirisilex wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:15 pm
Fortyeightvows wrote:Why does the op want to propitiate hayagriva?
I have a Mental Illness (Schizophrenia) and I have read that the Black Hayagriva protects people with Mental Illness.. I have been regularly practicing the Medicine Buddha. I just feel I could use Black Hayagrivas help as well.
i readed schizophrenia and thought "oh, i'll write him to try medicine buddha", lol you are already being active :)

returning to your question, it is a good thing you asked before jumping into the sadhana.
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Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by AJP »

Tirisilex wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:21 pm I have been doing the Medicine Buddha practice for years and I have found it quite beneficial. I've seen my negative thinking be washed away after doing the practice.
https://shop.fpmt.org/The-Method-to-Tra ... redirect=1

These were advised as Sutra Dharani practices that are non-restrictive. Anybody can do them. Feel free to email FPMT about it to clarify for yourself.

Also, there probably are more, I haven't checked.

I have also been told that the White Tara Mantra can be recited without any initiation and is beneficial. Not the actual Deity practice though as that would require Empowerment.

Anyone correct me feel free or add appropriate suggestions.
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