Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Locked
User avatar
Aryjna
Posts: 1320
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Aryjna »

MalaBeads wrote:
Aryjna wrote:every other day.
Everry other day? Geesh.
Even for a serial killer that is alot. Even a hypothetical one.
That does not change the fact that there can be cases where an ordinary person can know with certainty. And the bodhisattva in the ship story above was not a buddha in any case. He just knew that the merchant was planning to kill everyone.
Malcolm
Posts: 34306
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Malcolm »

MalaBeads wrote:
Malcolm wrote: It can be compassionate to toss someone in jail.
Always good to know what you think, Malcolm.
Sometimes people need a serious time out. Jail can be good for that. However, do not read that as an endorsement for the penal justice system as its stands in the US today. It is way too racist.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
User avatar
Losal Samten
Posts: 1529
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Losal Samten »

Aryjna wrote:And the bodhisattva in the ship story above was not a buddha in any case. He just knew that the merchant was planning to kill everyone.
Just for clarification, Captain Mahakaruna was on the pure bhumis (or at least the impure bhumis, can't find the reference right now).
Malcolm wrote:As far as the famed ship's captain story, in order to act in the manner of the ship's captain, one must possess the same level of clairvoyance as the ship's captain in order to know whether the mind of a being is truly harmful or not. One must also possess realization of emptiness so that one's compassion is free from any sort of personal self-interest and coloring.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
User avatar
Aryjna
Posts: 1320
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Aryjna »

Losal Samten wrote:
Aryjna wrote:And the bodhisattva in the ship story above was not a buddha in any case. He just knew that the merchant was planning to kill everyone.
Just for clarification, Captain Mahakaruna was on the pure bhumis (or at least the impure bhumis, can't find the reference right now).
Malcolm wrote:As far as the famed ship's captain story, in order to act in the manner of the ship's captain, one must possess the same level of clairvoyance as the ship's captain in order to know whether the mind of a being is truly harmful or not. One must also possess realization of emptiness so that one's compassion is free from any sort of personal self-interest and coloring.
That makes sense, it wasn't mentioned in the version I read some time ago.
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by dzogchungpa »

HHDL says SR is "disgraced":

phpBB [video]
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7411
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

@1:18:30
HHDL wrote:Now recently Sogyal R., my very good friend, but he, uh, disgraced. So some of his own, sort of, student now publicly, make public, you see, their criticism.
Immediately before that he was saying that openly shaming wayward teachers was appropriate.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
Posts: 3973
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Adamantine »

He was quite pointed even: he said roughly that if a given teacher was conducting themselves contrary to the Buddha's teachings then exposing them was important: if they don't care about going against the Dharma then at least they may care about their own face... meaning they'll likely care a lot about how they appear to others still..
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
veggiepeace
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:02 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by veggiepeace »

Hi everyone,

yes it's important what the Dalai Lama said about inappropriate behaviour of tibetan teachers,
but there does not seem to be much attention or recognition for the people who have been targeted by abuse.

I found this post also quite interesting, sorry for not doing copy and paste

https://gendunblog.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... ack-sheep/


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering :-)
veggiepeace
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:02 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by veggiepeace »

Maybe you want to have a look at this page, just in case you haven't already...

https://buddhism-controversy-blog.com/2 ... ent-419171

Best wishes and thanks for reading!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering :smile:
Soma999
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Soma999 »

An authentic teacher may turn bad. That's sad, but it's not impossible. So clearly ne one should consider "i am the best, nothing wrong can happen with me" because we are all very vulnerable.

Sometime the teacher hear all the time "you are SOOOO great, the best of all the millions universe, you are a living god, you are..." and sometime it can give HEAVY weight on a little egocentric dust, or a little "please recognise me" dust.

When one teacher can have all kind of woman with just a clapping of hands, humiliate and do whatever he wants without any problems, and see presidents, all kind of leaders praising him, i think it is EXTREMLY difficult to remane sane in such an environnement. I would say the only way to remane sane is to have a true guru, a true lama taking great care of you.

Can we imagine being in his situation ? Maybe in one hour we would turn crazy. But then that's not a reason to caution what is completly unacceptable (if what is in the letter is true).

But one point to consider is that loving him is giving energy. And hating him is giving energy. Not tolerating him is giving energy.

What to do then ? Don't feed him anymore with your attention, and turn to other teachers, other teachings, and let justice do its work, and alerting those who may fall into something dangerous. Stop writing all the time on him. Turn your attention to "pure" teachings.

Stop putting all your attention to injustice and problems and the like. You feed them. Feed what needs to grow.

Of course this letter may not change his behaviour, but at least it may change the students behaviour, and help make things change.

After all, what he does is his responsability. If human justice does not the work in this life, karma is another things. For our part, just turn to authentic teachings.

Also, i have read that if the teaching is good, it's not important what the teacher is. I find that absolutly wrong. A true teacher must absolutly embody totaly the teaching, and become the teachings. Then the teachings has power, and even words can illuminate, feeds, transforms students. It's no more words, it's food. Otherwise, if there is a disconnection, the teaching lose power, and it's just books, words which just feed your head, and do not even transform your heart.

The teacher and the teaching must absolutly be one. The word of the Guru is the sharing of the nectar of his heart. Then, words, even books written have the power to transmit the light of initiations and transforms people. Because it's not just words. It's a door to your own heart where the true initiations occurs.

One can't say something and do the opposite. Of course one may do mistakes, but then making efforts to improve and correct. If one is a true spiritual guide, of course.
MalaBeads
Posts: 803
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:47 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by MalaBeads »

Soma999 wrote: i think it is EXTREMLY difficult to remane sane in such an environment.

I recently watched a video of Rabjam Rinpoche and in it he says Lama Chime told him if he and Trungpa Rinpoche had not met Khenpo Gangshar before they came to the west they would have gone crazy. Doesn't say much about western culture, does it?
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21590
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Grigoris »

veggiepeace wrote:Hi everyone,

yes it's important what the Dalai Lama said about inappropriate behaviour of tibetan teachers,
but there does not seem to be much attention or recognition for the people who have been targeted by abuse.

I found this post also quite interesting, sorry for not doing copy and paste

https://gendunblog.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... ack-sheep/


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering :-)
There is nothing in this link that has not already been discussed here.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
veggiepeace
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:02 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by veggiepeace »

But one point to consider is that loving him is giving energy. And hating him is giving energy. Not tolerating him is giving energy.

What to do then ? Don't feed him anymore with your attention, and turn to other teachers, other teachings, and let justice do its work, and alerting those who may fall into something dangerous. Stop writing all the time on him. Turn your attention to "pure" teachings.

Stop putting all your attention to injustice and problems and the like. You feed them. Feed what needs to grow.

Of course this letter may not change his behaviour, but at least it may change the students behaviour, and help make things change.

After all, what he does is his responsability. If human justice does not the work in this life, karma is another things. For our part, just turn to authentic teachings.
Thank you soma999, I think that's the best one can do. To feed anger is of no use. But set a clear boundary and turn to valuable things instead could be much more useful.

But I think for the people who have recently - or for a longer time been targeted by such abuse - it is not so easy to process that and continue their life as if nothing happened. They might need support or even some kind of therapy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering :-)
veggiepeace
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:02 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by veggiepeace »

Grigoris wrote:
veggiepeace wrote:Hi everyone,

yes it's important what the Dalai Lama said about inappropriate behaviour of tibetan teachers,
but there does not seem to be much attention or recognition for the people who have been targeted by abuse.

I found this post also quite interesting, sorry for not doing copy and paste

https://gendunblog.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... ack-sheep/


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering :-)
There is nothing in this link that has not already been discussed here.
That's correct, gregoris, but where in the post is indicated that it's "breaking news"? Hm? I don't see that. :twothumbsup:
veggiepeace
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:02 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by veggiepeace »

Soma999 wrote:
But one point to consider is that loving him is giving energy. And hating him is giving energy. Not tolerating him is giving energy.

What to do then ? Don't feed him anymore with your attention, and turn to other teachers, other teachings, and let justice do its work, and alerting those who may fall into something dangerous. Stop writing all the time on him. Turn your attention to "pure" teachings.

Stop putting all your attention to injustice and problems and the like. You feed them. Feed what needs to grow.

Of course this letter may not change his behaviour, but at least it may change the students behaviour, and help make things change.

After all, what he does is his responsability. If human justice does not the work in this life, karma is another things. For our part, just turn to authentic teachings.

Also, i have read that if the teaching is good, it's not important what the teacher is. I find that absolutly wrong. A true teacher must absolutly embody totaly the teaching, and become the teachings. Then the teachings has power, and even words can illuminate, feeds, transforms students. It's no more words, it's food. Otherwise, if there is a disconnection, the teaching lose power, and it's just books, words which just feed your head, and do not even transform your heart.

The teacher and the teaching must absolutly be one. The word of the Guru is the sharing of the nectar of his heart. Then, words, even books written have the power to transmit the light of initiations and transforms people. Because it's not just words. It's a door to your own heart where the true initiations occurs.

One can't say something and do the opposite. Of course one may do mistakes, but then making efforts to improve and correct. If one is a true spiritual guide, of course.
Thanks for putting this into words, I couldn't agree more.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering :-)
TRC
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:23 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by TRC »

dzogchungpa wrote:HHDL says SR is "disgraced":

phpBB [video]
HHDL also made this observation, which I think provides some important context to Tibetan Buddhism's integration in the West:
  • “I feel some of these lama institutions have some sort of influence of the feudal system. That is outdated and must end – that feudal influence. Then eventually a lama institution creates lama politics [DL laughs heartily]. That’s very bad."
User avatar
cky
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:00 pm

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by cky »

I feel relief to hear such clear-cut statements from HHDL. We're very lucky to have him around in this position!
crazy-man
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:22 pm

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by crazy-man »

Dans l’attente qu’une évolution heureuse soit établie, l’Union Bouddhiste de France suspend la qualité de membre de Rigpa Lérab Ling et Rigpa France.
http://www.bouddhisme-france.org/espace ... poche.html
Malcolm
Posts: 34306
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Malcolm »

crazy-man wrote:
Dans l’attente qu’une évolution heureuse soit établie, l’Union Bouddhiste de France suspend la qualité de membre de Rigpa Lérab Ling et Rigpa France.
http://www.bouddhisme-france.org/espace ... poche.html

According to Google Translate, this means:

The master of Tibetan Nyingmapa Buddhism, Sogyal Rinpoche, is subject to concordant accusations, which, as we know it and as they are stated, do not in any way correspond to Buddhist ethics and prove unjustifiable at all points of views.

In anticipation of a successful outcome, the Union Bouddhiste de France suspends the membership of Rigpa Lérab Ling and Rigpa France.

The UBF expresses with sincerity and compassion all its spiritual support to the people concerned by this affair and to the international community of this school.
"Nonduality is merely a name;
that name does not exist."
—Kotalipa
User avatar
Virgo
Former staff member
Posts: 4025
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Virgo »

cky wrote:I feel relief to hear such clear-cut statements from HHDL. We're very lucky to have him around in this position!
HH is like the sun in the sky.

Kevin
Locked

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”