tingdzin wrote:
It's necessary to recognize that the world has changed (declined in my opinion), and that one cannot wait for the perfect opportunity to do an orthodox 3-year retreat. Just single-mindedly focusing on doing as much retreat as you can, without getting drawn into worldly activities more often than necessary, may be the best most of us can hope for. You may find that in the end this strategy ends up with your doing quite a lot of retreat.
I agree with this. I used to really block myself by thinking that I had no possibility to do three-year retreat and that I wasn't able to stay close to my master to get the intimate instructions. When I finally dropped that attitude and just started to practice as much as I could it was such a relief and I discovered I already had a lot of intimate instructions.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
tingdzin wrote:
It's necessary to recognize that the world has changed (declined in my opinion), and that one cannot wait for the perfect opportunity to do an orthodox 3-year retreat. Just single-mindedly focusing on doing as much retreat as you can, without getting drawn into worldly activities more often than necessary, may be the best most of us can hope for. You may find that in the end this strategy ends up with your doing quite a lot of retreat.
I agree with this. I used to really block myself by thinking that I had no possibility to do three-year retreat and that I wasn't able to stay close to my master to get the intimate instructions. When I finally dropped that attitude and just started to practice as much as I could it was such a relief and I discovered I already had a lot of intimate instructions.
/magnus
Thank you guys this is really helpful!
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
tingdzin wrote:
It's necessary to recognize that the world has changed (declined in my opinion), and that one cannot wait for the perfect opportunity to do an orthodox 3-year retreat. Just single-mindedly focusing on doing as much retreat as you can, without getting drawn into worldly activities more often than necessary, may be the best most of us can hope for. You may find that in the end this strategy ends up with your doing quite a lot of retreat.
I agree with this. I used to really block myself by thinking that I had no possibility to do three-year retreat and that I wasn't able to stay close to my master to get the intimate instructions. When I finally dropped that attitude and just started to practice as much as I could it was such a relief and I discovered I already had a lot of intimate instructions.
I would also like to add something that made a great difference for me in daily practice. My master told us that: "better 10 minutes happy practice then 1 hour "so and so"". Perhaps obvious but it showed me quite clearly that at the time my practice was mostly "so and so". To change this took me quite some time.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
I mean no offense at all by this, and it may sound bad, but I suggest you don't do this, or at least just not yet. Someone here had typed that they had heard reports of this process being quite heavy as an undertaking, and though that is nothing to fear, I think more important than all these things is the Dharma.
I think you would very likely be better off studying, learning, and listening to the Dharma and seeing the world you are in with Dharmic eyes and other senses than to be caught in a rigamaroll of various concern which is then also cut off.
Many people go to Tibetan Monks with what might be called impure intentions. They aren't bad intentions as in intentions to harm, but they are not so pure as one might hope. For example, many go with a secretly harbored desire for a father figure or a God figure or an Authority figure to set things straight by their strength. Some go to gain recognition or approval, even self approval. I've seen these things and I've seen something worse:
Very literally, when an impure intention is acted upon and cultivated from, it grows crooked and demented results. Literally, if a person wants to become a vile person in life, they simply have to act on impure intentions, even without realizing it, and acting on it is like watering it, and it grows and becomes so much worse.
I have seen leveled up monsters. It seems wow what happened they seemed so innocent initially, now they are so rude and mean and elitist and hostile, the Dharma does not flow through them except in the coarsest and most pitiable ways.
Go to any online forum for Buddhism and you are likely to find the impure growths. Yes that is judgmental, yes, you should see it, judge it, not say that you are immune, and avoid such for yourself if some part of you wants the Dharma unstifled in yourself and from yourself.
There was something hidden in their hearts which they themselves may not have been conscious of which then was watered and fed and grew more and more apparent as a monstrosity except perhaps to them, and why this is a problem is that it can be more difficult to kill a big monster than a little monster or to identify and remove a monster seed. These things can be rather hidden until they grow larger, but remain concealed to the monster growing. This is what it would be to grow deeper in delusion.
So I don't want to discourage you from Tibetan Buddhism because Vajrayana has lots of wonderful things to say and do in colorful and interesting and exciting ways that can enliven the Dharma and have helped it spread as well, but that it is so much worse for a person to take even a step forward without very stringent self-awareness and acknowledgment. Many people dream of being respected or respecting themselves, being real finally, being authorized etc. Many people deny such, denial doesn't save anyone, non-action can save people.
The good part of this bad story is that at any moment you can start to pick out and throw away those monster seeds and realize that nothing is truly inhibiting you from being a self-revealing vehicle of Dharma through your actions and experiences right now.
Also, travel the various hells of online forums on Buddhism and peer into and think about each thing you see there and what its small origins might have been or even ask them about their history and they may reveal their tales and testimonies which they wear so apparently in all they do and are as they have become character consumed. Character consumption can be good or useful too, but not when it has deluded a person into unwarranted violence or unconscious irresponsibility.
The Artis Magistra wrote:I mean no offense at all by this, and it may sound bad, but I suggest you don't do this, or at least just not yet.
Do what? Three-year retreat or daily practice?
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
The 3 year retreat is what I was cautioning about, the daily practice or life practice thing I would encourage fully as an excellent idea to become increasingly comfortable and familiarized with whatever you are interested in.
The Artis Magistra wrote:I mean no offense at all by this, and it may sound bad, but I suggest you don't do this, or at least just not yet. Someone here had typed that they had heard reports of this process being quite heavy as an undertaking, and though that is nothing to fear, I think more important than all these things is the Dharma.
I think you would very likely be better off studying, learning, and listening to the Dharma and seeing the world you are in with Dharmic eyes and other senses than to be caught in a rigamaroll of various concern which is then also cut off.
Many people go to Tibetan Monks with what might be called impure intentions. They aren't bad intentions as in intentions to harm, but they are not so pure as one might hope. For example, many go with a secretly harbored desire for a father figure or a God figure or an Authority figure to set things straight by their strength. Some go to gain recognition or approval, even self approval. I've seen these things and I've seen something worse:
Very literally, when an impure intention is acted upon and cultivated from, it grows crooked and demented results. Literally, if a person wants to become a vile person in life, they simply have to act on impure intentions, even without realizing it, and acting on it is like watering it, and it grows and becomes so much worse.
I have seen leveled up monsters. It seems wow what happened they seemed so innocent initially, now they are so rude and mean and elitist and hostile, the Dharma does not flow through them except in the coarsest and most pitiable ways.
Go to any online forum for Buddhism and you are likely to find the impure growths. Yes that is judgmental, yes, you should see it, judge it, not say that you are immune, and avoid such for yourself if some part of you wants the Dharma unstifled in yourself and from yourself.
There was something hidden in their hearts which they themselves may not have been conscious of which then was watered and fed and grew more and more apparent as a monstrosity except perhaps to them, and why this is a problem is that it can be more difficult to kill a big monster than a little monster or to identify and remove a monster seed. These things can be rather hidden until they grow larger, but remain concealed to the monster growing. This is what it would be to grow deeper in delusion.
So I don't want to discourage you from Tibetan Buddhism because Vajrayana has lots of wonderful things to say and do in colorful and interesting and exciting ways that can enliven the Dharma and have helped it spread as well, but that it is so much worse for a person to take even a step forward without very stringent self-awareness and acknowledgment. Many people dream of being respected or respecting themselves, being real finally, being authorized etc. Many people deny such, denial doesn't save anyone, non-action can save people.
The good part of this bad story is that at any moment you can start to pick out and throw away those monster seeds and realize that nothing is truly inhibiting you from being a self-revealing vehicle of Dharma through your actions and experiences right now.
Also, travel the various hells of online forums on Buddhism and peer into and think about each thing you see there and what its small origins might have been or even ask them about their history and they may reveal their tales and testimonies which they wear so apparently in all they do and are as they have become character consumed. Character consumption can be good or useful too, but not when it has deluded a person into unwarranted violence or unconscious irresponsibility.
I am talking kind of in general but basing it on what the original poster wrote and asked in the thread title and their early comments. I was suggesting they monitor their reasoning and really that they might consider practicing more in regular circumstances than anything too sudden, abrasive, or harsh to themselves.
I find what The Artis Magistra says about intention something very profund, and of utmost importance.
Intention is the key of spirituality, nothing less. Go in whatever tradition you want, it's the same. Intention is of utmost importance.
Why am i practicing ? Really ? Is it for *me* or is it for "us" ? That is what matter. Don't worry, in "us", you are included !
Of course, everyone say they practice for the whole enlightment of the whole universe and even above... ok, now, really dive deep within yourself and really see if that is really the goal, the aim, the intention that feeds the practice, the motivation that sets your practice in action. Sometime, between what one say, and the real motivation, there is something else.
One of the most dangerous intention is "seeking recognition". Of course, being recognised is very necessary, but if you are in search of that too much, if it takes everything, it will impact your practice.
Intention is energy, intention is resonnance. And it will impact all your practice. If you practice to get recognised, you lower the power of your practice, and if one don't solve this issue of being recognised, he may become a "black hole" attracting all attention of others, this is really letting the rot set in.
Unfortunatly, some people, who are skillful, intelligent, and with capacity... just block themselves, even regress because of that. They can even darken themselves, if you allow the expression.
Do you think Buddhas and boddisatvas will give you siddhih, important and powerful keys if everything they will give you just end up in a process of finding revalorisation ?
This is the first thing to work out: one's intention. And this is something to really have in one's mind. All the time. Why am i practicing ? Why ? Is it inspired by boddicitta or by egocentrism ? We have to see and to correct oneself. For our own benefits.
This is not "cool" to see we are not "so bright" as what we thought we are, mind you ! But at least, you grow. Otherwise, you just feed delusion.
What i see dangerous in tantrism considering intention are three things : secrecy, power and accumulation.
Secrecy : i saw in groups people saying "i did this secret initiation", "and me this is even MORE secret", "i received this so RARE empowerment"... well, what i hear is just : "see how SPECIAL i am". And if you are someone special, others are not, you are so different, "i'm someone SO important ya know ?". Are we on the boddisattva training ?
Power : if you want to bring all spiritual predators of a city, just say you will transmit initiation of power, with siddhis... Power is important, but if one focus only on that, this is a gate for the lower realms. It's just a tool, a useful tool, but when it becomes an ideal, everything, without wisdom and compassion, it's dangerous.
Accumulation : the more one focus on number, the more the quality of intention decrease. Not always, of course, but when it's an ideal per se, it can really impact the quality of inner intention.
This is not "nice talk". I would prefer to say we are all so cool boddisattvas, with so cool motivation, we are changing the world, we are so great. But if one really want to help and to be a source of growth for others, it's good to speak about those topics, so that one can see if it helps them.
In the gospel (it's not "buddhist", but contains universal keys, and universal means for everyone), it speaks about people showing of everything good they did like "see how i'm good ? you see ? And you did you see also ? I'm good, no ?"... well, "they already got their reward".
But also, "what you give, do it in secret, and your Father, who see in the secret, will reward you".
Another key the gospel says : you want to be great ? Adapt an attitude of service. You want to be the greatest ? Adopt an attitude of service to all. Service of their higher nature. That is : dedicating one's energy for the benefits of all.
You build an orphan, great ! You do it for being recognised, or you do it for the children. The effects will not be the same, not at all. The second one is a spiritual act, and it will give special fruits and open things for you.
What do we do before each practice : setting the boddisatva motivation. And three times. At this time, it's really good to pause and really ask oneself why am i practicing. And if it's not so pure, maybe ask Vajrasattva to purify them.
Why do i want to perform a "three year retreat" ? So that people call me "lama" ? To become "someone" ? Because society scares me ? Because it's the deepest motivation to grow ? Maybe this growth can also be done by other means, without leaving "ordinary" life ? Maybe i need to meet people in different circonstances of life ?
Intention is the "seeds". If the seeds are corrupted, do you expect the fruits to be good ? "Yeah, but i did so mich accumulation"... well, you'll just have a lot of fruits which are not good.
If one's practice don't make us more human, patient, generous, loving... there is something wrong. It's never too late to rectify. Never too late.
One friend who spent years in traditional tibetan teachings told the first and foremost thing is intention. Even is the form is not so good, the astrological configuration is not so good, your prononciation is not so good, your objects are not so good... if your intention coming from your heart is sincere, pure, divine, you may be exauced. But even if you have it all on the form, empowerment, objects, astrological configuration and all the rest but your intention is lacking, you missed the point completly.
The Artis Magistra wrote:I am talking kind of in general but basing it on what the original poster wrote and asked in the thread title and their early comments. I was suggesting they monitor their reasoning and really that they might consider practicing more in regular circumstances than anything too sudden, abrasive, or harsh to themselves.
The Artis Magistra wrote:I mean no offense at all by this, and it may sound bad, but I suggest you don't do this, or at least just not yet. Someone here had typed that they had heard reports of this process being quite heavy as an undertaking, and though that is nothing to fear, I think more important than all these things is the Dharma.
I think you would very likely be better off studying, learning, and listening to the Dharma and seeing the world you are in with Dharmic eyes and other senses than to be caught in a rigamaroll of various concern which is then also cut off.
Many people go to Tibetan Monks with what might be called impure intentions. They aren't bad intentions as in intentions to harm, but they are not so pure as one might hope. For example, many go with a secretly harbored desire for a father figure or a God figure or an Authority figure to set things straight by their strength. Some go to gain recognition or approval, even self approval. I've seen these things and I've seen something worse:
Very literally, when an impure intention is acted upon and cultivated from, it grows crooked and demented results. Literally, if a person wants to become a vile person in life, they simply have to act on impure intentions, even without realizing it, and acting on it is like watering it, and it grows and becomes so much worse.
I have seen leveled up monsters. It seems wow what happened they seemed so innocent initially, now they are so rude and mean and elitist and hostile, the Dharma does not flow through them except in the coarsest and most pitiable ways.
Go to any online forum for Buddhism and you are likely to find the impure growths. Yes that is judgmental, yes, you should see it, judge it, not say that you are immune, and avoid such for yourself if some part of you wants the Dharma unstifled in yourself and from yourself.
There was something hidden in their hearts which they themselves may not have been conscious of which then was watered and fed and grew more and more apparent as a monstrosity except perhaps to them, and why this is a problem is that it can be more difficult to kill a big monster than a little monster or to identify and remove a monster seed. These things can be rather hidden until they grow larger, but remain concealed to the monster growing. This is what it would be to grow deeper in delusion.
So I don't want to discourage you from Tibetan Buddhism because Vajrayana has lots of wonderful things to say and do in colorful and interesting and exciting ways that can enliven the Dharma and have helped it spread as well, but that it is so much worse for a person to take even a step forward without very stringent self-awareness and acknowledgment. Many people dream of being respected or respecting themselves, being real finally, being authorized etc. Many people deny such, denial doesn't save anyone, non-action can save people.
The good part of this bad story is that at any moment you can start to pick out and throw away those monster seeds and realize that nothing is truly inhibiting you from being a self-revealing vehicle of Dharma through your actions and experiences right now.
Also, travel the various hells of online forums on Buddhism and peer into and think about each thing you see there and what its small origins might have been or even ask them about their history and they may reveal their tales and testimonies which they wear so apparently in all they do and are as they have become character consumed. Character consumption can be good or useful too, but not when it has deluded a person into unwarranted violence or unconscious irresponsibility.
I would never do a three-year retreat. Why? Because I understand who I am, and who I am not.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
Soma999 wrote:I find what The Artis Magistra says about intention something very profund, and of utmost importance.
Intention is the key of spirituality, nothing less. Go in whatever tradition you want, it's the same. Intention is of utmost importance.
Why am i practicing ? Really ? Is it for *me* or is it for "us" ? That is what matter. Don't worry, in "us", you are included !
Of course, everyone say they practice for the whole enlightment of the whole universe and even above... ok, now, really dive deep within yourself and really see if that is really the goal, the aim, the intention that feeds the practice, the motivation that sets your practice in action. Sometime, between what one say, and the real motivation, there is something else.
One of the most dangerous intention is "seeking recognition". Of course, being recognised is very necessary, but if you are in search of that too much, if it takes everything, it will impact your practice.
Intention is energy, intention is resonnance. And it will impact all your practice. If you practice to get recognised, you lower the power of your practice, and if one don't solve this issue of being recognised, he may become a "black hole" attracting all attention of others, this is really letting the rot set in.
Unfortunatly, some people, who are skillful, intelligent, and with capacity... just block themselves, even regress because of that. They can even darken themselves, if you allow the expression.
Do you think Buddhas and boddisatvas will give you siddhih, important and powerful keys if everything they will give you just end up in a process of finding revalorisation ?
This is the first thing to work out: one's intention. And this is something to really have in one's mind. All the time. Why am i practicing ? Why ? Is it inspired by boddicitta or by egocentrism ? We have to see and to correct oneself. For our own benefits.
This is not "cool" to see we are not "so bright" as what we thought we are, mind you ! But at least, you grow. Otherwise, you just feed delusion.
What i see dangerous in tantrism considering intention are three things : secrecy, power and accumulation.
Secrecy : i saw in groups people saying "i did this secret initiation", "and me this is even MORE secret", "i received this so RARE empowerment"... well, what i hear is just : "see how SPECIAL i am". And if you are someone special, others are not, you are so different, "i'm someone SO important ya know ?". Are we on the boddisattva training ?
Power : if you want to bring all spiritual predators of a city, just say you will transmit initiation of power, with siddhis... Power is important, but if one focus only on that, this is a gate for the lower realms. It's just a tool, a useful tool, but when it becomes an ideal, everything, without wisdom and compassion, it's dangerous.
Accumulation : the more one focus on number, the more the quality of intention decrease. Not always, of course, but when it's an ideal per se, it can really impact the quality of inner intention.
This is not "nice talk". I would prefer to say we are all so cool boddisattvas, with so cool motivation, we are changing the world, we are so great. But if one really want to help and to be a source of growth for others, it's good to speak about those topics, so that one can see if it helps them.
In the gospel (it's not "buddhist", but contains universal keys, and universal means for everyone), it speaks about people showing of everything good they did like "see how i'm good ? you see ? And you did you see also ? I'm good, no ?"... well, "they already got their reward".
But also, "what you give, do it in secret, and your Father, who see in the secret, will reward you".
Another key the gospel says : you want to be great ? Adapt an attitude of service. You want to be the greatest ? Adopt an attitude of service to all. Service of their higher nature. That is : dedicating one's energy for the benefits of all.
You build an orphan, great ! You do it for being recognised, or you do it for the children. The effects will not be the same, not at all. The second one is a spiritual act, and it will give special fruits and open things for you.
What do we do before each practice : setting the boddisatva motivation. And three times. At this time, it's really good to pause and really ask oneself why am i practicing. And if it's not so pure, maybe ask Vajrasattva to purify them.
Why do i want to perform a "three year retreat" ? So that people call me "lama" ? To become "someone" ? Because society scares me ? Because it's the deepest motivation to grow ? Maybe this growth can also be done by other means, without leaving "ordinary" life ? Maybe i need to meet people in different circonstances of life ?
Intention is the "seeds". If the seeds are corrupted, do you expect the fruits to be good ? "Yeah, but i did so mich accumulation"... well, you'll just have a lot of fruits which are not good.
If one's practice don't make us more human, patient, generous, loving... there is something wrong. It's never too late to rectify. Never too late.
One friend who spent years in traditional tibetan teachings told the first and foremost thing is intention. Even is the form is not so good, the astrological configuration is not so good, your prononciation is not so good, your objects are not so good... if your intention coming from your heart is sincere, pure, divine, you may be exauced. But even if you have it all on the form, empowerment, objects, astrological configuration and all the rest but your intention is lacking, you missed the point completly.
I think this question deserves our attention.
Thank you, soma.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
Thank you guys this is really helpful!