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Pabhongka Lamrim questionable claim

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:24 pm
by Toenail
Hello,

I am reading Pabhongkas Lamrim and in it he says that even if someone does negative wishes in front of buddha statues etc. they become a cause for enlightenment. The example he uses is the wish never to attain enlightenment (he does not mean the bodhisattvas wish to not attain enlightenment until samsara is emptied). He says that this is because of the
root-merit
of the action in front of a virtuos object.

How is this to be understood? This does not make sense to me. My idea of karma, cause and effect was that negative intentions can never lead to positive results. Just like an apple tree seed cannot yield potatoes.

Toenail

Re: Pabhongka Lamrim questionable claim

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:40 pm
by Lobsang Chojor
Which page is it from so I can look and hopefully help :D

Re: Pabhongka Lamrim questionable claim

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:50 pm
by dzogchungpa
I'm not recalling exactly now, but one does hear stories of insects biting great beings and then being reborn as their students or otherwise benefiting as a result. Something like that.

Re: Pabhongka Lamrim questionable claim

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:52 pm
by Tsongkhapafan
It's a mixed action. Seeing holy objects such as Buddha statues, stupas, temples and other representations of the Three Jewels is a cause of enlightenment. It is like a tiny jewel that is swallowed and can never be corrupted by the impurity of the body. Similarly, seeing holy objects increases an indestructible imprint in our mind for enlightenment. We receive this benefit irrespective of our motivation.

However, if we perform a negative action in front of a representation of the Three Jewels, we will still incur negative karma as well commensurate with our motivation, the type of action, the object of the action, and so forth.

The benefit we receive from the holy object, then, is not due to our deluded or negative mind but due to the power of the holy object. For example, if we look at Buddha with an angry, disrespectful mind, we will receive an imprint or blessing from seeing a holy object but later we will also suffer due to the karma we created by our negative mind towards a holy object. This is why I say it's mixed karma.

Re: Pabhongka Lamrim questionable claim

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:28 pm
by javier.espinoza.t
Toenail wrote:Hello,

I am reading Pabhongkas Lamrim and in it he says that even if someone does negative wishes in front of buddha statues etc. they become a cause for enlightenment. The example he uses is the wish never to attain enlightenment (he does not mean the bodhisattvas wish to not attain enlightenment until samsara is emptied). He says that this is because of the
root-merit
of the action in front of a virtuos object.

How is this to be understood? This does not make sense to me. My idea of karma, cause and effect was that negative intentions can never lead to positive results. Just like an apple tree seed cannot yield potatoes.

Toenail
this is possible, but enlightenment comes in a far more extensive period of time compared to some who has a possitive relationship to buddhadharma.

Re: Pabhongka Lamrim questionable claim

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:09 pm
by Karinos
this is due to wishes of enlightened beings that whoever have good or bad karmic connections with them, should be enlightened in the same mandala

Re: Pabhongka Lamrim questionable claim

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:12 pm
by Schrödinger’s Yidam
Once when I took a Gelug HYT initiation the lama said, "Even if you end up in hell because of this initiation it is a great blessing."

Chew on that one for a while.