Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

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Grigoris
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Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

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"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Tsongkhapafan »

Non-sectarianism is respecting all different traditions and respecting the right of each person to follow a tradition of their choosing. It is not necessary to learn and practise all these different traditions to be non-sectarian.

If one chooses to study and practise only one tradition, this is not sectarian - only if one rejects other traditions is it sectarian.
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

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Tsongkhapafan wrote:If one chooses to study and practise only one tradition, this is not sectarian - only if one rejects other traditions is it sectarian.
One is an implicit rejection of other traditions, the other is an explicit rejection of other traditions.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Tsongkhapafan »

Grigoris wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:If one chooses to study and practise only one tradition, this is not sectarian - only if one rejects other traditions is it sectarian.
One is an implicit rejection of other traditions, the other is an explicit rejection of other traditions.
Really? Just because I don't drink coffee doesn't mean I think there's anything wrong with it or with people who drink coffee, it just isn't right for me. It's not a judgement. Similarly, the practice of one tradition is helpful because, contrary to what the Dalai Lama says, I think it can lead to confusion.

It is more helpful to study and practice one tradition deeply then to study and practice other traditions superficially. If you want to dig a hole, you stay at one spot and dig continuously. If you walk around digging lots of shallow holes in lots of different places it won't have the same effect.

However, everybody has choice. If someone wants to practice lots of traditions they shouldn't be labelled as eclectic and superficial and if someone wants to practise only one tradition, they shouldn't be labelled as sectarian. Respect for different approaches works wonders.
Last edited by Tsongkhapafan on Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grigoris
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

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Tsongkhapafan wrote:Similarly, the practice of one tradition is helpful because. contrary to what the Dalai Lama says, I think it can lead to confusion.
And you know better than the Dalai Lama, right? ...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Tsongkhapafan »

Grigoris wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:Similarly, the practice of one tradition is helpful because. contrary to what the Dalai Lama says, I think it can lead to confusion.
And you know better than the Dalai Lama, right? Or maybe you are just the member of a sectarian death cult?
I'm just proposing an alternative view. We don't have to blindly accept everything a Lama teaches. :twothumbsup:
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

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Indeed! Especially when they tell you to ritually murder your critics.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Matt J »

I find it the grandest irony that Buddhism, based on the insights into emptiness, has so much issues with sectarianism.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Tsongkhapafan »

Grigoris wrote:Indeed! Especially when they tell you to ritually murder your critics.
You really do believe everything you hear and read?
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Tsongkhapafan »

Matt J wrote:I find it the grandest irony that Buddhism, based on the insights into emptiness, has so much issues with sectarianism.
:good:

However, emptiness doesn't mean that anything can be anything. Mere appearances to mind function, or don't function, because emptiness also means dependent-relationship.
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by javier.espinoza.t »

what's the definition of "sect"?
and now, non-sectarian means not having the quality of a sect.
it doesent mean being against the quality of a sect.

negation does not mean opposition. this is pure logic.
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Jeff H »

Yes, HHDL says in this clip that the great masters of Nalanda studied all methods and were never confused. But most of us here are not great masters, and neither are we steeped in a monastic culture having been raised in a Buddhist society. My Christian upbringing was based, not at all on rational choice, but on my parents' preference and the locally available options. I learned what was fed to me, and later I was able to begin looking around and thinking for myself. Both phases can be confusion free.

It so happens that my introduction to Buddhism was Gelug, and without any conscious manipulation on my part, each phase of my learning arc happened to come from a Gelug foundation. I consider that an effect of karma and I am very grateful for it. I think it is helpful to establish a systemic baseline first. Each school has its own, legitimate, holistic presentation. If one compares and contrasts each specific point with other schools' while first trying to digest the concepts, practices, and nuances of their base school, the systemic cohesion can be lost.

HHDL's view on non-sectarianism is well represented by his abiding respect for all religions while "staunchly" (his word) proclaiming Buddhism to be the best religion for himself. It is also evident in his ecumenism within Buddhism. He also says that it's ok to practice Buddhism and other religions at the same time ... to a point. There comes a point when the principles conflict and the individual must come down on one side or the other.

So I'd say that within a given lifetime it works out something like this. If you are handed a religion, accept it. If not, it's fine to start with a cursory survey to see which religion and denomination resonates. Then study and practice that one and establish a foundation. In either case, once you are sufficiently grounded and if you want to, reach out and compare what you have with what else is around you. On that basis, gain a better understanding of your base school, make adjustments, and/or graduate to a new practice. As long as there seems to be some deepening and broadening relative to your personally established spiritual goal, keep going.

Being non-sectarian means realizing you are seeking your personal best path and not disparaging others' paths.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

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Jeff H wrote:Being non-sectarian means realizing you are seeking your personal best path and not disparaging others' paths.
I thought disparaging others' paths was the whole point of Buddhism. Am I missing something? :shrug:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

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Tsongkhapafan wrote:You really do believe everything you hear and read?
Nope. Only the true bits.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

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Jeff H wrote:...the systemic cohesion can be lost.
And then where would you be? Chaos! Destruction! Disorder!
Image
Since when was Dharma about systemic cohesion???
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Jeff H »

dzogchungpa wrote:
Jeff H wrote:Being non-sectarian means realizing you are seeking your personal best path and not disparaging others' paths.
I thought disparaging others' paths was the whole point of Buddhism. Am I missing something? :shrug:
Hmmm. Preliminary diagnosis -- sounds like you may have OD'd on DW. Image
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Jeff H »

Grigoris wrote:
Jeff H wrote:...the systemic cohesion can be lost.
And then where would you be? Chaos! Destruction! Disorder!
Image
Since when was Dharma about systemic cohesion???
Dharma is not, but it is useful for establishing an introductory understanding of Dharmic principles.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

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Jeff H wrote:Dharma is not, but it is useful for establishing an introductory understanding of Dharmic principles.
An introductory understanding is based on the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Noble Path. Then on Dependent Origination. And finally (for Mahayani) on the Bodhisattva Vows. Maybe the Four Dharma Seals too. You don't need all that much systemic cohesion to get a basic understanding of those. Sectarianism will not help you understand these because you will not be subjected to the varying interpretations which shed light and clarify these key points.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

Tsongkhapafan wrote: It is more helpful to study and practice one tradition deeply then to study and practice other traditions superficially. If you want to dig a hole, you stay at one spot and dig continuously. If you walk around digging lots of shallow holes in lots of different places it won't have the same effect.
I think this is only true for some people. For other people, it is better to be more flexible. Especially beginners should look to different approaches.

I mainly follow the Nyingma-Tradition, but I don't get confused when I read texts or visit Dharma-Talks from Lamas of other traditions. You just have to educate yourself a little. I mean, in the end, it is all Buddha-Dharma isn't it?

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Re: Dalai Lama about non sectarian approach towards Buddhist study and practice.

Post by Tsongkhapafan »

Karma_Yeshe wrote: I think this is only true for some people. For other people, it is better to be more flexible. Especially beginners should look to different approaches.

I mainly follow the Nyingma-Tradition, but I don't get confused when I read texts or visit Dharma-Talks from Lamas of other traditions. You just have to educate yourself a little. I mean, in the end, it is all Buddha-Dharma isn't it?

Karma Yeshe
Yes, of course it's only true for some people and everyone has choice about how they want to study and practice. However, what is important is that those people who only want to study and practise one tradition deeply are not disparaged as being 'sectarian' which in itself is sectarian.

Oh the irony! :smile:

And furthermore, it shouldn't be seen that studying and practising many different traditions is the only way to go. Everybody has a choice and should be allowed the freedom to follow whatever spiritual path they choose.
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