Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

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Nosta
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Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Nosta »

I think that seeing yourself as a deity, both in physical form and way of thinking and acting, is an amazing idea. Only Boddhistavvas could convey such ideas! :)

Anyway, I would like to learn more about deity visualisation and seeing yourself as such. Where can I find more information on how to do that, what kinds of specific things should I visualise, see, think, etc? I would like to have practice advice on that.

I know very well what you will say: you need a teacher and empowerments, etc. I know that my friends, and as usual I will answer that right now I dont have access to none. :( But I believe that if I visualize myself as a given deity, even without empowerments and proper teaching, that will be of great benefit. While you embody yourself as a pure being, by using you imagination, some attributes of that deity will born on yourself. With that in mind t I am asking for good resources, specially books or ebooks or web articles.

Thank you very much!
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

As far as I know, generally there aren't any practices you are supposed to do self-generation with without empowerment..

Although, I have seen that be iffy with Chenrezig due to the fact that some centers have public practices with self-generation, I still don't think any teacher would say there is much benefit to it if you've never practiced it with actual instruction, with a Lama, or had empowerment.

My understanding is that at the very least, without empowerment and/or instruction (i.e. you are at least doing sadhana with a group and teacher) there really is no point in trying this.

Online empowerment for various practices from a few teachers do exist, it might be worth first making a connection with one of those teachers. Barring that, Bokar Rinpoche's Chenrezig: Lord of Love has good advice, though again, I am unclear on whether or not it is sometimes ok to do this specific practice without empowerment, I have heard both answers. At any rate, it is really worth getting empowerment if you are interested in deity yoga, they aren't just 'permission' to do a thing, and are a profound experience of the deity of and within themselves.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse's Longchen Nyingtik Practice Manual had some advice on visualization that I found really helpful. You can get a free PDF of it if you send them a request. Also, Staircase to Akanistha in Deity, Mantra, and Wisdom has some advice as well, although it may be a little more dry and is obviously non-contemporary.
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Nosta
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Nosta »

Thanks! ;)
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heart
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by heart »

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Norwegian »

Nosta,
I would like to have practice advice on that.
Practice advice on these things are given to those who practice Vajrayana. In order to practice Vajrayana, you must receive empowerment.
I believe that if I visualize myself as a given deity, even without empowerments and proper teaching, that will be of great benefit.
It will have no benefit at all whatsoever.
While you embody yourself as a pure being, by using you imagination, some attributes of that deity will born on yourself.
Without empowerment, nothing will happen.

If you don't have empowerment, then these books are not for you. These are instructions on practices that one receives after one has received empowerment. And, if you attempt to practice something you have not received empowerment and transmission for, there will be zero benefit. What is introduced in an empowerment, is the View. This view is introduced only via the empowerment. Lacking that empowerment, you do not have the view.

And as Nagarjuna said:

"Even though an individual may have practiced well,
with a wrong view
All that matures will be unbearable.
"
-- Suhrllekha ["Letter to a Friend"]

In fact, according to Vajrayana, what you are saying that you will do, is called "stealing the teachings" - and is something that the Dakinis and the protectors greatly frown upon.

If there are no teachers where you live, you can travel. If you can't even travel, there are teachers you can connect with via the Internet. It is possible in this day and age to meet with a qualified master. If you want to...
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra
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maybay
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by maybay »

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Nosta
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Nosta »

In the perspective of psychologial benefits, I suppose that there are benefits. For example, you will see many authors saying to mimic the behaviour, manners and toughts of a given person in order to be more like her. You will see that in books about many themes.

Of course that the more "mystical" benefits I will not get them.
Anyway, I am working on getting empowerments on a webcast. Just a quick question: will I receive a specific empowerment for a given thing (for example, empowerment to realize phowa) OR are empowerments something general that can be used for anything?

Thanks for all the answers so far. :)
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Virgo »

Nosta wrote:But I believe that if I visualize myself as a given deity, even without empowerments and proper teaching, that will be of great benefit. While you embody yourself as a pure being, by using you imagination, some attributes of that deity will born on yourself. With that in mind t I am asking for good resources, specially books or ebooks or web articles.

Thank you very much!
You will probably just create obstacles.

It is better to connect with an authentic Guru who you have faith in and receive the transmissions from him or her.


:anjali: Kevin
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conebeckham
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by conebeckham »

You cannot receive a complete empowerment from a webcast.

I know, I know, some of us have argued against this point, here on DW, in the past, and some of you will disagree with me. That's fine. Feel free to disagree. But do yourself a favor, if you haven't, and find a genuine complete Wangkur and attend it in person.

You may, though, be able to receive "jenang" or "permission blessing" that way--(via Webcast, I mean) --which, in some traditions, is enough to do self-visualization. there are other forms of Dharma Transmission which I feel confident in saying DO happen over the interwebs.

In any case, each "empowerment" whether it is a full Wangkur, or a Jenang, or any sort of transmission, will be specific to a given deity practice.

If you're really interested in Deity Yoga, you will need to attend, in person.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


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It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
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maybay
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by maybay »

If you want to take shortcuts ask your guru about Mahamudra/Dzogchen. Deity yoga takes effort, diligence, and a great deal of personal sacrifice.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

maybay wrote:If you want to take shortcuts ask your guru about Mahamudra/Dzogchen. Deity yoga takes effort, diligence, and a great deal of personal sacrifice.
Sorry, but this is not true. Deity yoga has nothing to do with sacrifices. It is not a path of renounciation. Also I'd like to know how you want to really practice the path of Dzogchen (and not some new age fantasy) without diligence? For most people Dzogchen is not a shortcut but a way to cover their lazyness with nice words.

Karma Yeshe
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Karma_Yeshe wrote: Also I'd like to know how you want to really practice the path of Dzogchen (and not some new age fantasy) without diligence?
Or without deity yoga. Are there Dzogchen teachers that actually teach that way?
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

tomamundsen wrote:
Karma_Yeshe wrote: Also I'd like to know how you want to really practice the path of Dzogchen (and not some new age fantasy) without diligence?
Or without deity yoga. Are there Dzogchen teachers that actually teach that way?
I don't know any teacher that teaches that way. But I know a few people who think they can practise this way.
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maybay
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by maybay »

Karma_Yeshe wrote:
maybay wrote:If you want to take shortcuts ask your guru about Mahamudra/Dzogchen. Deity yoga takes effort, diligence, and a great deal of personal sacrifice.
Sorry, but this is not true. Deity yoga has nothing to do with sacrifices. It is not a path of renounciation.
Sure sure, in theory. Time and energy taken to get empowerments, do pujas, sadhanas, and everything else in your life are mutually exclusive. Unless like some Tibetans you think of empowerments as a picnic.
Also I'd like to know how you want to really practice the path of Dzogchen (and not some new age fantasy) without diligence?
With deity yoga there is always some further aspect to clarify, some extra connection to be made, some more mantras to knock off. I don't say Dzogchen doesn't take diligence, and, certainly, there is always more one can understand about it, but from the beginning you have the result. If your mind is coloured with striving and achievement you're doing it wrong.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

maybay wrote: Sure sure, in theory. Time and energy taken to get empowerments, do pujas, sadhanas, and everything else in your life are mutually exclusive. Unless like some Tibetans you think of empowerments as a picnic.
You really only need one empowerment. As the saying goes: Tibetans practise hundreds of Yidams and realise none, Indians practised one Yidam an realised all.
With deity yoga there is always some further aspect to clarify, some extra connection to be made, some more mantras to knock off. I don't say Dzogchen doesn't take diligence, and, certainly, there is always more one can understand about it, but from the beginning you have the result. If your mind is coloured with striving and achievement you're doing it wrong.
You only have the result, when you have the result! This is were many people fool themselves. Also at least in the Nyingma-Tradition in the inner Tantras, we don't do diety yoga with the kind of colours you described.

KY
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

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Not two persons are the same in the whole world.
Some talk of performance simplifying as much as possible while others take their time to fully grasp in depth the matters.
I do not see a problem, not a single one.

:anjali:
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

newbie wrote:Not two persons are the same in the whole world.
Some talk of performance simplifying as much as possible while others take their time to fully grasp in depth the matters.
I do not see a problem, not a single one.

:anjali:
Ignorance is the core problem of everyone of us.
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by newbie »

Karma_Yeshe wrote:
newbie wrote:Not two persons are the same in the whole world.
Some talk of performance simplifying as much as possible while others take their time to fully grasp in depth the matters.
I do not see a problem, not a single one.

:anjali:
Ignorance is the core problem of everyone of us.
Mine is bigger than everyone else's. But I have to get ready for practice.
I'll answer you later, probably Monday after the appointment with the dentist. I'll be able to smile niceeer.
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Re: Creation and Completion Stage Resources?

Post by Virgo »

Karma_Yeshe wrote:Also I'd like to know how you want to really practice the path of Dzogchen (and not some new age fantasy) without diligence? For most people Dzogchen is not a shortcut but a way to cover their lazyness with nice words.

Karma Yeshe
Not necessarily. There are lazy Sakyapas, Gelugpas, Kagyupas, Nyingmapas, Zen practitioners, Theravadins, and so on and so forth.

If you have not taken Dzogchen teachings, you should not criticize it. We should not criticize that which we do not understand.

:anjali: Kevin
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