Ngondro Out of Order?

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tookansook
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Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by tookansook »

I started doing Ngondro with GBI under Venerable Khenpo Tenzin, starting in the Vajrasattva/100 Syllable Mantra stage instead of one of the earlier stages. A friend of mine who has finished his preliminaries has made me aware that if I practice anywhere else or ever intend to take Samaya vows, that some teachers will find the fact that I've done Ngondro out of order as invalid and I may have to repeat the process, and so instead I might want to choose to wait.

Is this true? Should I wait to practice, at least until the next cycle starts with GBI and do it from the beginning, or take up Ngondro with another teacher?
zerwe
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by zerwe »

tookansook wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:13 am I started doing Ngondro with GBI under Venerable Khenpo Tenzin, starting in the Vajrasattva/100 Syllable Mantra stage instead of one of the earlier stages. A friend of mine who has finished his preliminaries has made me aware that if I practice anywhere else or ever intend to take Samaya vows, that some teachers will find the fact that I've done Ngondro out of order as invalid and I may have to repeat the process, and so instead I might want to choose to wait.

Is this true? Should I wait to practice, at least until the next cycle starts with GBI and do it from the beginning, or take up Ngondro with another teacher?
Honestly, the answer lies with your teacher. I personally had not been given any particular order, but I have a different Guru and practice in a different tradition.

Shaun :namaste:
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

I think a lot of it is what is the ngondro actually doing to your mind not that you completed a certain number which could be done absentmindedly.

How is it preparing you for further practices?

Vajrasattva is still essential further down the road.
དཀོན་མཆོག་ཐོགས་མེད་འབྱམས་པ

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tookansook
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by tookansook »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:42 am I think a lot of it is what is the ngondro actually doing to your mind not that you completed a certain number which could be done absentmindedly.

How is it preparing you for further practices?

Vajrasattva is still essential further down the road.
I believe it is helping, I've actually had some questions answered personally by Khenpo, and he indicated that the questions I had regarding my experiences showed that I was making progress and practicing correctly.

I've just heard from my friend, and now other sources that some teachers are super picky about the order of completion, I've also heard others say it doesn't matter in the slightest. So wasn't sure if there was anything related to any of the traditions that has a rule about this, or it is just each Guru's personal feelings on the matter.
Tata1
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by Tata1 »

tookansook wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:13 am

Is this true?
No
namoh
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by namoh »

One imagines that someone practicing Ngondro already has samaya vows?
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by heart »

tookansook wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:13 am I started doing Ngondro with GBI under Venerable Khenpo Tenzin, starting in the Vajrasattva/100 Syllable Mantra stage instead of one of the earlier stages. A friend of mine who has finished his preliminaries has made me aware that if I practice anywhere else or ever intend to take Samaya vows, that some teachers will find the fact that I've done Ngondro out of order as invalid and I may have to repeat the process, and so instead I might want to choose to wait.

Is this true? Should I wait to practice, at least until the next cycle starts with GBI and do it from the beginning, or take up Ngondro with another teacher?
The famous Khenpo Ngakchung disciple of Nyoshul Lungtok and main holder of the Longchen Nyingtik did his ngondro, according to his teachers instruction, in a different order. So I don't think you need to worry. Anyway, you might do other ngondros in the future, ngondro is not something you do just once.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

The Nyingmapas I know do the prayers for all the practices each session. However they can accumulate whatever they want of each section. For instance they can, in a single session, accumulate 100 prostrations, 300 Vajrasattva, zero Mandalas, and 200 Guru Yogas. But they have to total 111k for each for them to finish.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Soma999
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by Soma999 »

The goal of ngondro is not accumulation, it is transformation.

If it transform you in a good way, you are doing it right.
Malcolm
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by Malcolm »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:43 pm The Nyingmapas I know do the prayers for all the practices each session. However they can accumulate whatever they want of each section. For instance they can, in a single session, accumulate 100 prostrations, 300 Vajrasattva, zero Mandalas, and 200 Guru Yogas. But they have to total 111k for each for them to finish.
Depends. 100k is just a nice round number.
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Crazywisdom
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by Crazywisdom »

Probably ask the lama. He would tell you.
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by heart »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:43 pm The Nyingmapas I know do the prayers for all the practices each session. However they can accumulate whatever they want of each section. For instance they can, in a single session, accumulate 100 prostrations, 300 Vajrasattva, zero Mandalas, and 200 Guru Yogas. But they have to total 111k for each for them to finish.
Normally you do accumulation in order but always do the full ngondro practice. like this: 100-500 prostrations, 3 bodhicitta, 21 vajrasattva, 3 mandala, 100 guru yoga mantras. You only count the prostrations in this example.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Crazywisdom
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by Crazywisdom »

heart wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:08 pm
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:43 pm The Nyingmapas I know do the prayers for all the practices each session. However they can accumulate whatever they want of each section. For instance they can, in a single session, accumulate 100 prostrations, 300 Vajrasattva, zero Mandalas, and 200 Guru Yogas. But they have to total 111k for each for them to finish.
Normally you do accumulation in order but always do the full ngondro practice. like this: 100-500 prostrations, 3 bodhicitta, 21 vajrasattva, 3 mandala, 100 guru yoga mantras. You only count the prostrations in this example.

/magnus
Well we just accumulated the thing we were working on. So when it was guru yoga it was thousands a day, etc.
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by heart »

Crazywisdom wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:52 pm
heart wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:08 pm
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:43 pm The Nyingmapas I know do the prayers for all the practices each session. However they can accumulate whatever they want of each section. For instance they can, in a single session, accumulate 100 prostrations, 300 Vajrasattva, zero Mandalas, and 200 Guru Yogas. But they have to total 111k for each for them to finish.
Normally you do accumulation in order but always do the full ngondro practice. like this: 100-500 prostrations, 3 bodhicitta, 21 vajrasattva, 3 mandala, 100 guru yoga mantras. You only count the prostrations in this example.

/magnus
Well we just accumulated the thing we were working on. So when it was guru yoga it was thousands a day, etc.
right

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Crazywisdom wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:52 pm
heart wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:08 pm
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:43 pm The Nyingmapas I know do the prayers for all the practices each session. However they can accumulate whatever they want of each section. For instance they can, in a single session, accumulate 100 prostrations, 300 Vajrasattva, zero Mandalas, and 200 Guru Yogas. But they have to total 111k for each for them to finish.
Normally you do accumulation in order but always do the full ngondro practice. like this: 100-500 prostrations, 3 bodhicitta, 21 vajrasattva, 3 mandala, 100 guru yoga mantras. You only count the prostrations in this example.

/magnus
Well we just accumulated the thing we were working on. So when it was guru yoga it was thousands a day, etc.
If memory serves me correctly it was Sangye Khandro that explained it to me. Gyatrul R. was teaching Nyingma NgonDro at our Kagyu center every weekend for most of a year. But it was a long time ago, so my memory could be off. It's possible.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
yagmort
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Re: Ngondro Out of Order?

Post by yagmort »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:43 pm The Nyingmapas I know do the prayers for all the practices each session. However they can accumulate whatever they want of each section. For instance they can, in a single session, accumulate 100 prostrations, 300 Vajrasattva, zero Mandalas, and 200 Guru Yogas. But they have to total 111k for each for them to finish.
this is the way i ve been instructed too. do all the sadhana per session but only count the target accumulation, which is 111K for all but guru mantra which is 1,200K
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