When aiming for enlightenment, can you 'accidentally' land yourself in heaven instead?

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Nalanda
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When aiming for enlightenment, can you 'accidentally' land yourself in heaven instead?

Post by Nalanda »

There are texts that speak of being reborn among the gods as if it's some kind of desirable thing. But isn't heaven/deva realm just a realm of pleasurable delusion for a long long duration? Why is that a good thing? Is it a legitimate aim to be reborn there?

Since most Buddhist practice (I think) to become enlightened, how can you make sure you don't end up in heaven instead?
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: When aiming for enlightenment, can you 'accidentally' land yourself in heaven instead?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Nalanda wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:47 pm There are texts that speak of being reborn among the gods as if it's some kind of desirable thing. But isn't heaven/deva realm just a realm of pleasurable delusion for a long long duration? Why is that a good thing? Is it a legitimate aim to be reborn there?

Since most Buddhist practice (I think) to become enlightened, how can you make sure you don't end up in heaven instead?
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Tills ljuset tar oss
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Re: When aiming for enlightenment, can you 'accidentally' land yourself in heaven instead?

Post by Tills ljuset tar oss »

Yes, there is such a story of a monk who meditated so intensively that he lost his bodily awareness and didn't even noticed that his spleen ruptured and he died.

Because of his effort in practice he instantly became reborn in a heaven realm. He was met with gods who were singing and dancing and they told him to join him. But he was apalled because he wanted to get buddhist awakening and so he somehow managed to leave that heaven and got another human form where he finally attained nirvana.

The best way to avoid heaven is probably purification of intent and sincere faith in the superiority of buddhahood over anything else.
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SkyFox
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Re: When aiming for enlightenment, can you 'accidentally' land yourself in heaven instead?

Post by SkyFox »

Nalanda wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:47 pm There are texts that speak of being reborn among the gods

Since most Buddhist practice (I think) to become enlightened, how can you make sure you don't end up in heaven instead?
This was something I have pondered for quite a while. And the thing is, aside from the Buddha, I don't think anyone can give a concrete answer.

As for myself, I believe the rebirth into deva correlates directly with one's merits/desires. There many people who do good deeds because they believe in karma and not necessarily because they want enlightenment. They still grasp and desire for the finer things in life; therefore, It's more likely for people like this to end up as a deva provivded they have enough merit.

For people with good merits who have given up desire and only want enlightenment, I would imagine the rebirth to be a lot more favourable in that direction. These are only my personal opinions of course 😁
Inedible
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Re: When aiming for enlightenment, can you 'accidentally' land yourself in heaven instead?

Post by Inedible »

The problem with Heaven is falling into lower rebirth afterward. Often that means Hell. Pure Lands are a different matter. You go there and stay until you become a Buddha. Amitabha Buddha has one of the easiest to get into.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: When aiming for enlightenment, can you 'accidentally' land yourself in heaven instead?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

With regards to “accidentally” taking rebirth in a Deva Loka (“heaven”) my understanding is that this can be the result if one’s actions of generosity are mixed with pride or self-attachment. For example, one gives a large sum of money to a temple and then makes sure everybody knows about what a big donor they are.

Because acts of generosity to the Dharma have unlimited (let’s say, a chain reaction of) benefits to sentient beings, this creates the karmic conditions for higher rebirth, whether a donation is made willingly or begrudgingly.

Many of us in are familiar with generosity performed begrudgingly, with the person who complains that the asking fee to attend a weekend teaching is too high, or how every time they visit a temple it seems to costs them another dollar. This mental practice cultivates an attitude of self-grasping, of maintaining one’s identity via hoarding wealth. Since one is supporting the Dharma (or engaging in other charitable actions) this opens the door for rebirth in a higher realm, but more likely as an asura or jealous fighting being. Asuras are not satisfied with what they have, but they also want what is in the highest samsaric realm, the Deva realm.

However, giving begrudgingly can also cultivate an attitude of never having enough, and that nothing is ever good enough, plentiful enough, and that whatever one does have even becomes repulsive. This can open the door to rebirth as a hungry ghost. They are always hungry and thirsty, even to the point that if you give them fresh cool water to drink, they truly see it as urine or pus. That’s how picky they are.

If you want to avoid taking rebirth as a deva, an asura, a hungry ghost, etc. then tbd best way to practice generosity is without attachments, without thinking too much (or at all, if you can) on being the one who is giving, or on how much is being given, or on the the benefactor, what the recipients will do with your donation. In Theravada countries where monks go out on alms begging, they can collect a scoop of rice here, a banana there, going from house to house, and it doesn’t burden the giver. Nor does it give the donor reason for excessive pride.

For us in places where monks don’t come to our door every day, a very effective way to practice Dana (generosity) in a daily basis, without attachment, is to keep a small coin bank or jar near your meditation/shrine area, and every day, drop in a small amount of money, like 25¢ (In a year that adds up to over $90) and then once a year offer that money to your local sangha or temple, or use it to pay for a teaching weekend or whatever. It’s easy to drop 25¢ into a jar without thinking about it too much, which is the whole point. I know of one Dharma center that encourages its members to support its operating costs this way. With over 100 members and friends, this brings in an extra $9,000 a year without putting too much of a strain on anybody. No strain, no attachment. No attachment, no pride or resentment, no rebirth as an asura or a hungry ghost (as a result of that, anyway).
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Hazel
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Re: When aiming for enlightenment, can you 'accidentally' land yourself in heaven instead?

Post by Hazel »

If you're only aiming for enlightenment on paper and instead just seeking pleasurable experiences, then it seems to follow that this would happen. I have heard this is also an issue when trying to practice Tantra without a teacher, but instead of heaven realms it's the formless realms.
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SkyFox
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Re: When aiming for enlightenment, can you 'accidentally' land yourself in heaven instead?

Post by SkyFox »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:33 pm With regards to “accidentally” taking rebirth in a Deva Loka (“heaven”) my understanding is that this can be the result if one’s actions of generosity are mixed with pride or self-attachment. For example, one gives a large sum of money to a temple and then makes sure everybody knows about what a big donor they are.

Because acts of generosity to the Dharma have unlimited (let’s say, a chain reaction of) benefits to sentient beings, this creates the karmic conditions for higher rebirth, whether a donation is made willingly or begrudgingly.

Many of us in are familiar with generosity performed begrudgingly, with the person who complains that the asking fee to attend a weekend teaching is too high, or how every time they visit a temple it seems to costs them another dollar. This mental practice cultivates an attitude of self-grasping, of maintaining one’s identity via hoarding wealth. Since one is supporting the Dharma (or engaging in other charitable actions) this opens the door for rebirth in a higher realm, but more likely as an asura or jealous fighting being. Asuras are not satisfied with what they have, but they also want what is in the highest samsaric realm, the Deva realm.

However, giving begrudgingly can also cultivate an attitude of never having enough, and that nothing is ever good enough, plentiful enough, and that whatever one does have even becomes repulsive. This can open the door to rebirth as a hungry ghost. They are always hungry and thirsty, even to the point that if you give them fresh cool water to drink, they truly see it as urine or pus. That’s how picky they are.

If you want to avoid taking rebirth as a deva, an asura, a hungry ghost, etc. then tbd best way to practice generosity is without attachments, without thinking too much (or at all, if you can) on being the one who is giving, or on how much is being given, or on the the benefactor, what the recipients will do with your donation. In Theravada countries where monks go out on alms begging, they can collect a scoop of rice here, a banana there, going from house to house, and it doesn’t burden the giver. Nor does it give the donor reason for excessive pride.

For us in places where monks don’t come to our door every day, a very effective way to practice Dana (generosity) in a daily basis, without attachment, is to keep a small coin bank or jar near your meditation/shrine area, and every day, drop in a small amount of money, like 25¢ (In a year that adds up to over $90) and then once a year offer that money to your local sangha or temple, or use it to pay for a teaching weekend or whatever. It’s easy to drop 25¢ into a jar without thinking about it too much, which is the whole point. I know of one Dharma center that encourages its members to support its operating costs this way. With over 100 members and friends, this brings in an extra $9,000 a year without putting too much of a strain on anybody. No strain, no attachment. No attachment, no pride or resentment, no rebirth as an asura or a hungry ghost (as a result of that, anyway).
:good:

Wow, and here I thought you would stop at the sorting hat🤣 As usual, good posting; very well thought out and informative👍👍👍
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