PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:05 am
My teacher said that since, when all obscurations are removed, buddhahood is the mind’s original state, that not only do all beings have the potential to some day attain realization, but that eventually (many kalpas in the future) they will.
But it’s like saying that eventually all the stars in the universe will eventually burn out. Yeah, if there is no cause for new stars to occur, that will happen. It’s so inconceivably far away, it’s moot.
Your teacher is correct. Tathāgatagarbha is the nature of all beings covered by obscurations. They will inevitably attain Buddhahood just as all stars will burn out.
All stars
will burn out, it is not moot by virtue of remoteness of time. But the universe has no beginning or end, no increase or decrease. The same with beings. New stars replace them, but there is not thereby increase. Those stars are destroyed, there is not thereby decrease.
As for beings, as the Anūnatvāpūrṇatvanirdeśaparivarta says,
Silk trans., 173–4 wrote:The Tathāgata’s dharma-body, Śāriputra, is permanent because of its quality of immutability, because of its quality of inexhaustibility. The Tathāgata’s dharma-body, Śāriputra, is constant because it can permanently be taken as a refuge, because it is equal with the future limit (of saṁsāra). The Tathāgata’s dharma-body, Śāriputra, is tranquil because of its non-dual nature, because of its nature as free from discrimination. The Tathāgata’s dharma-body, Śāriputra, is unchangable because of its imperishable nature, because of its non-created nature.
When this very same dharma-body, Śāriputra, ensnared by limitless defilements greater in number than the sands of the Ganges, drifting on the waves of the world from beginningless ages, comes and goes through birth and death, then it is termed ‘Beings.’
When this very same dharma-body, Śāriputra, repels the anguish and suffering of birth and death in the world, banishes all desires, practices the ten perfections, collects the eighty-four thousand teachings, and cultivates the practices leading to bodhi, then it is termed ‘bodhisattva.’
Once again, Śāriputra, when this very same dharma-body is free from the covering of all the world’s defilements, beyond all suffering, and free from the stains of all defilements, it attains purity, it attains perfect purity, and dwells among the pure dharmas of the other shore. It reaches the stage of what is desired by all beings, it thoroughly penetrates all spheres (of knowledge), and there is none surpassing it. It is free of all hindrances, free of all obstacles, and it attains sovereign power over all things. [This then] is termed ‘Tathāgata, Arhat, Perfectly Awakened One.’
Dharma-body is obscured by defilements and then it is termed "beings," but there is no increase thereby. They attain "nirvāṇa," but there is no decrease thereby. There is no contradiction in this, as Malcolm said:
Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:20 pm
Dzogchen tantras teach that by the end of the eon, when all sentient beings have vanished from all the realms below the fourth form realm, all those realms perish (as in Abhidharma), and in the end all sentient beings attain buddhahood (not in Abhidharma).
This is a bit different from my understanding based on the idea of eternity entailing the inevitable coincidence of the appropriate conditions for buddhahood, but it is maybe another verification of the inevitability of that buddhahood on top of that which will occur within an aeon.
As for their "arising:"
Sentient beings newly arise at the end of each bardo of samsara and nirvana.
How do they arise? They arise when neutral awarenesss in the basis makes the error of not recognizing the display of the a basis as its own display. The imputing ignorance results in self and other, the ālaya forms, the twelve links start up, samsara and nirvana divide. Etc.
As I mentioned above, Dzoghchen texts do not distinguish whether this neutral awareness in the basis is multiple or singular.
In fact, the Nirvāṇa Sūtra suggests that "all beings have Buddha-Nature" equals "all beings will attain Buddhahood."
Yamamoto trans., 370 wrote:"O good man! “As all beings will definitely gain unsurpassed Enlightenment, I say that all beings possess the Buddha-Nature”. The beings actually do not possess the 32 signs of perfection and the 80 minor marks of excellence. So, in this sutra, I say in a gatha:
"What originally was is now no longer; What originally was not, now is;
There can be nothing such as "is" That obtains in the Three Times."
"O good man! There are three kinds of what exists. One is what comes about in the days to come, the second what actually exists there [now], and the third what was there in the past. “All beings will gain unsurpassed Enlightenment in the days to come.” [This is the Buddha- Nature.] All beings now possess all bonds of defilement. So they do not possess at present the 32 signs of perfection and the 80 minor marks of excellence. Thus, the beings who have cut off the bonds of defilement in the past see, in the present, the Buddha-Nature. So, I always say that beings all possess the Buddha-Nature.
Yamamoto trans., 460 wrote:"The Buddha-Nature is called vajropama-samadhi. By practising samadhi, one truly catches hold of the Buddhist doctrines. Because of this, we say: "The vajropama-samadhi is the Buddha-Nature." The Bodhisattva of the ten stages practises this samadhi and is not yet perfect. He sees the Buddha-Nature, but not clearly. As all beings will ultimately gain it, we say: "All beings have the Buddha-Nature."
"O good man! As all the doctrines [dharmas] referred to above will definitely be gained by all beings, we say: "All beings definitely have the Buddha-Nature."
Queequeg wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:55 pm
Astus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:37 pm
Zhen Li wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:56 pmThe idea that all beings will eventually become Buddhas is a Mahāyāna teaching not covered by the Śrāvakayāna texts.
But why would all eventually become a buddha? The reasoning that "if it can happen, it will happen" does not stand. That all beings have buddha-nature is not a sufficient condition either.
I think the catalyst you are looking for are the hosts of buddhas and bodhisattvas that actively endeavor to respond to the needs and capacities of all living beings. Its those vows that turn the balance toward buddhahood.
The nature of Tathāgatagarbha is like a magnet, it draws everyone towards Buddhahood. Beings of course need to orient themselves towards it. The sunlight is always shining on the window, but the inhabitant has to take the initiative to open the curtain. If a bodhisattva thinks that some beings will and some beings will not attain Buddhahood, this is the same as acting on the belief that some have and others do not have Buddha-nature, thinking that some beings are beyond hope. But such thinking is impossible for a bodhisattva and a buddha because they know the true nature of all beings is fundamentally pure and that knowing the perfect skilful means to apply at the right time, they will be able to convince them to open the curtains and let in the Buddha-dharma's light.
I think you make a good point with regard to the nature of the sufficient condition. Most neutral conditions do not have a conscious guiding force within them that pushes a certain outcome on them, but Buddha-nature is not a neutral condition because it entails naturally the application of the external force of the immense compassionate vows of the awakened ones. Buddha-nature then, is like a pair that always comes with the compassionate activity of the buddhas and bodhisattvas, even though it may take aeons to fully actualise its effectiveness. So, this is probably one, among many reasons, why all beings having Buddha-nature is equivalent to all beings will attain buddhahood. It is both a necessary and sufficient condition (so I am changing my opinion from earlier that it was necessary but not sufficient).