What exactly is it that leads to Enlightenment? (arhat and buddhahood)

[Astus]

What I meant to say is what is it 'technically' that generates the enlightenment.

It is the elimination of clinging by the realisation of emptiness.

[PadmaVonSamba]

So what is it that actually brings about enlightenment in someone?

Please remember, there is nothing in the mind that you don’t already have, that you need to acquire. The true nature of mind is already Buddha. All the different Buddhist practices exist purely for the purpose of clearing away obstacles to realizing the mind’s true nature. Buddhism is like a huge bucket full of window cleaning supplies. The mind is like a perfectly clear crystal window but which is covered in grease and soot. None of the cleaning supplies will “give” the window the true clarity it already has on its own. They will only help you to remove the grime. Likewise, none of the practices can “give” the mind its intrinsic Buddha-nature. They only help you to discover what you already possess.

[Miorita]

You said it yourself: Buddha's teachings.
.
"Patience is not something that ripens, patience is coming via understanding."

[KC:]

I understand that practices matter from prostrations, poetry, mantra, memorization, chanting, worshipping, etc. are important. I get that. I understand that moral ethics are vital.

I notice no mention of bodhicitta. Since this is the Mahayana topic I'll expand a bit.

For years/decades I've noticed that most of my cohort (sangha?) are very big on compassion and loving kindness. Perhaps because of my Soto Zen roots, I am more concerned with human nature i.e. from confusion come passion/aggression, lust/antagonism.

From my fairly substantial library I can cite only a small (single handful) selections of text that deal with how empathy/sympathy is basic our understanding the true nature of reality. (As a hippie kid in the 60s I declared solidarity/empathy to be core to community.)
Bodhicitta ... bodhisattva aspiration ... these cannot be displaced, though they can be dismissed.

In another tab just now, the 2020 documentary about building Perseverance, the Mars lander. That's my turf: high-end high-tech.
Buddhadharma isn't about chemistry or mechanics. It's about how we as individual persons cope with the confusion that arises from samsaric entanglements and conflicted emotions.
Tragically, most everything in our society moves us towards posturing as subject matter experts.

"Just sit" ... the teaching I take as core to Dogen Zenji's instructions for shikantaza. I'm sure Gautama the Buddha would not disagree!

--KC:

[Shinjin]

Nenbutsu is the easiest and most direct path especially in the current age.

[Malcolm]

Nenbutsu is the easiest and most direct path especially in the current age.

Not so. For example, the Buddha in the Cakrasamvara tantra asserts that the practice of Heruka is the only means by which one can attain buddhahood in this degenerate age, and so on.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

My understanding of general Mahayana is that if you acquire both enough merit and enough awareness you become enlightened. At least that’s my impression from my time with Gelugpas.

[Nicholas2727]

Nenbutsu is the easiest and most direct path especially in the current age.

Not so. For example, the Buddha in the Cakrasamvara tantra asserts that the practice of Heruka is the only means by which one can attain buddhahood in this degenerate age, and so on.

How is this understood by most Vajrayana practitioners then? I know you practice Dzogchen and it seems you view this is the fastest way to Buddhahood. If the Buddha said Heruka is the only way to attain Buddhahood shouldn't we all practice that?

[PadmaVonSamba]

Nenbutsu is the easiest and most direct path especially in the current age.

Not so. For example, the Buddha in the Cakrasamvara tantra asserts that the practice of Heruka is the only means by which one can attain buddhahood in this degenerate age, and so on.

How is this understood by most Vajrayana practitioners then? I know you practice Dzogchen and it seems you view this is the fastest way to Buddhahood. If the Buddha said Heruka is the only way to attain Buddhahood shouldn't we all practice that?

Whatever is the ‘best way’ depends a lot on what’s the best way for each person.

[Nicholas2727]

Not so. For example, the Buddha in the Cakrasamvara tantra asserts that the practice of Heruka is the only means by which one can attain buddhahood in this degenerate age, and so on.

How is this understood by most Vajrayana practitioners then? I know you practice Dzogchen and it seems you view this is the fastest way to Buddhahood. If the Buddha said Heruka is the only way to attain Buddhahood shouldn't we all practice that?

Whatever is the ‘best way’ depends a lot on what’s the best way for each person.

Yes I understand that but Malcolm's quote from the Cakrasamvara tantra says the that the practice of Heruka is the only means one can attain Buddhahood in the degenerate age. Im not sure how literal this is supposed to be taken, but if it is why would most vajrayana practitioner practice anything besides Heruka?

[Shinjin]

Nenbutsu is the easiest and most direct path especially in the current age.

Not so. For example, the Buddha in the Cakrasamvara tantra asserts that the practice of Heruka is the only means by which one can attain buddhahood in this degenerate age, and so on.

Don't know. Even if it is not everyone has the luxury of finding a qualified guru and practicing with them. Nenbutsu on the other hand is accessible to all.

[cjdevries]

Not so. For example, the Buddha in the Cakrasamvara tantra asserts that the practice of Heruka is the only means by which one can attain buddhahood in this degenerate age, and so on.

How is this understood by most Vajrayana practitioners then? I know you practice Dzogchen and it seems you view this is the fastest way to Buddhahood. If the Buddha said Heruka is the only way to attain Buddhahood shouldn't we all practice that?

Whatever is the ‘best way’ depends a lot on what’s the best way for each person.

Good post. Agreed. I like what Stephen Levine says about the spiritual path being like a brailleing along individual pathways; he says there is no one size fits all.

[Malcolm]

Nenbutsu is the easiest and most direct path especially in the current age.

Not so. For example, the Buddha in the Cakrasamvara tantra asserts that the practice of Heruka is the only means by which one can attain buddhahood in this degenerate age, and so on.

Don't know. Even if it is not everyone has the luxury of finding a qualified guru and practicing with them. Nenbutsu on the other hand is accessible to all.

It very much depends on how quickly one is motivated to attain Buddhahood, from the point of view of the cause and result vehicles. It still requires three incalculable eons to attain buddhahood, even if one should take birth in Sukhavati, according to the causal vehicles.

[Shinjin]

Not so. For example, the Buddha in the Cakrasamvara tantra asserts that the practice of Heruka is the only means by which one can attain buddhahood in this degenerate age, and so on.

Don't know. Even if it is not everyone has the luxury of finding a qualified guru and practicing with them. Nenbutsu on the other hand is accessible to all.

It very much depends on how quickly one is motivated to attain Buddhahood, from the point of view of the cause and result vehicles. It still requires three incalculable eons to attain buddhahood, even if one should take birth in Sukhavati, according to the causal vehicles.

It depends in what grade one is born into. High grade birth is instant buddhahood.

[Aemilius]

"Buddhahood" is hallucination, you still have an eternity of time in front of you. You regard buddhahood as an escape, that is no the case. It is normally sold to you like that, and you believe it naturally. But the truth is more like "three incalculable kalpas", because there are anyway three incalculable kalpas, even when you are a "buddha". The world of becoming is still there and you are responsible, and you must act because of it.

[Malcolm]

Don't know. Even if it is not everyone has the luxury of finding a qualified guru and practicing with them. Nenbutsu on the other hand is accessible to all.

It very much depends on how quickly one is motivated to attain Buddhahood, from the point of view of the cause and result vehicles. It still requires three incalculable eons to attain buddhahood, even if one should take birth in Sukhavati, according to the causal vehicles.

It depends in what grade one is born into. High grade birth is instant buddhahood.

No, it isn’t. And this is the problem: everyone claims their own path is the best, fastest, etc. but it’s not a race, and everyone has to work out their own path to their own satisfaction. But the one thing necessary in all is a teacher, a spiritual friend.

[PadmaVonSamba]

It depends in what grade one is born into. High grade birth is instant buddhahood.

No, it isn’t.

What is “High grade birth”?

"Not by birth is one an outcast; not by birth is one a brahman. By deed one becomes an outcast, by deed one becomes an brahman."

Although this quote (Pali Canon, Vasala Sutta) is not specifically about attainment, it points out that according to the Buddha, one’s actions, not one’s birth, determine one’s results. Of course, one’s birth is also the result of one’s previous actions.

This doesn’t mean that some types of birth aren’t preferable to others as far as liberation from samsara is concerned. Human birth is the only one which is is a constant state of changing and provides opportunities to study and practice the path to liberation. But within the human realm, it is possible to squander this opportunity. There is no guarantee of attainment based on birth.

[Malcolm]

It depends in what grade one is born into. High grade birth is instant buddhahood.

No, it isn’t.

What is “High grade birth”?

He is referring to the nine grades of birth in in Sukhavati described in the Chinese canon’s contemplation sutra.

[Shinjin]

It very much depends on how quickly one is motivated to attain Buddhahood, from the point of view of the cause and result vehicles. It still requires three incalculable eons to attain buddhahood, even if one should take birth in Sukhavati, according to the causal vehicles.

It depends in what grade one is born into. High grade birth is instant buddhahood.

No, it isn’t. And this is the problem: everyone claims their own path is the best, fastest, etc. but it’s not a race, and everyone has to work out their own path to their own satisfaction. But the one thing necessary in all is a teacher, a spiritual friend.

Yes, let's not repeat the same discussion we had over at the other thread. Everyone determines a path according to their own karmic dispositions. Mine happens to be JSS but I always like to keep an open mind.

[Malcolm]

It depends in what grade one is born into. High grade birth is instant buddhahood.

No, it isn’t. And this is the problem: everyone claims their own path is the best, fastest, etc. but it’s not a race, and everyone has to work out their own path to their own satisfaction. But the one thing necessary in all is a teacher, a spiritual friend.

Yes, let's not repeat the same discussion we had over at the other thread. Everyone determines a path according to their own karmic dispositions. Mine happens to be JSS but I always like to keep an open mind.

Yes, and even if the Buddha were sitting in front of us telling us in a group what the most effective teaching was, we would all hear something completely different.