Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

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spess
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Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by spess »

If someone was previously from another religion, and during that time he made vows to a god or a saint of that other religion, how can he remove or renounce those vows in Buddhism? Also, can you state from which school your answer is from?

Thank you :anjali:
TannersHatch
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by TannersHatch »

Hello

I'm new so please excuse my replying. I can really relate to what I think you might be going through.

To change religion is not easy. And all main stream religions should be venerated as having equal potential and underlying goals (such as a happier way of life).
I myself was raised as a Catholic and then a Mormon before atheism, new age ideas, Christianity again (non secular), confusion and finally Buddhism.

If you find you are experiencing feelings or guilt, existential fear, or that you may have 'bretrayed' or angered your previous object/s of worship (God/s), but would like to continue practice, there are a few things I might suggest which could be of use to you.

Humbly I offer that when we feel fear and guilt these negative afflictions stem from ignorance particularly. As we meditate and become familiar with the Dharma, building in sequence the realisations and acceptance of the 4 noble truths and particularly the teachings on impermanence, dependent origination, causes and conditions, then in sequence emptiness and finally non-self we may come to a place in which these fears are no longer afflicting us.

'the dark night of the soul' in which we deal with concepts such as God as a transcendent being have the power to make us feel very powerful emotions and negative thoughts, especially for those of us who have had previous strongly held opposing beliefs. To take refuge in a supreme being, and to take refuge in general is something deeply natural for humans. Some Buddhists take refuge in the Goddess Tara, and hold her and not the three jewels as their main point of refuge. This is absolutely fine and suits the mental and spiritual inclinations of these practioners.
The right spiritual teaching is the teaching best suited to the individual.

Remember to always go to the Dharma as perhaps the most important of the three jewels in these circumstances. As you build your house of wisdom do so methodical ly making sure each understanding, reinforced with meditation is solid before moving to far ahead and tackling concepts which may cause you problems if examined to closely to quickly. All the walls must be solid before trying to put on the roof or your gonna end up with tiles in your cornflakes.
Dependent origination and emptiness particularly helped me with my own struggles with my own God (I won).

When you feel scared take refuge in the Buddha, his compassion and the knowledge that he would never do anything to hurt you or put you in harm's way.

Rely on the Sangha and community by talking about these things when motivated to do so.

I'm with you. It can be a scary thing sometimes but your not alone by any means. Sure scared the hell outta me at first...

I recommend the Dalai Lamas books as a great source of these topics approached in order for the layman such as myself and anything I got right in my advise I gleaned from books written by the honoured gentleman. The mistakes I may have made are purely my own.
Last edited by TannersHatch on Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:46 am, edited 12 times in total.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Renounce to whom?

I’ve never heard of needing to “renounce”.
Rather, it’s simply a matter of changing the road you are on. Like, when you exit one highway and get onto another, you don’t need to renounce the highway you were on. It took you to where you are now, and that’s good enough. It is assumed that when you get on one road, you are leaving the previous one.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
zerwe
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by zerwe »

I don't think that there is any reason to formally renounce things associated with the past.

If you take refuge in the three jewels (Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha),follow the advice that is to be upheld and that what is to be discarded/avoided this is sufficient. This includes the practice of not taking refuge in worldly gods or other figures. So, in short when you are ready to practice refuge, then you would be automatically accomplishing what you seek.

Shaun :namaste:
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KathyLauren
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by KathyLauren »

If I had made a vow to an entity and later realized that that entity did not exist, to whom would I renounce the vow? The vow is null and void by virtue of that entity not existing. Similarly, if I had made a vow to a teacher and later realized that they were a false teacher, the vow is null and void by virtue of that teacher being unworthy of a vow.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
spess
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by spess »

TannersHatch wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:49 pm Hello

I'm new so please excuse my replying. I can really relate to what I think you might be going through.

To change religion is not easy. And all main stream religions should be venerated as having equal potential and underlying goals (such as a happier way of life).
I myself was raised as a Catholic and then a Mormon before atheism, new age ideas, Christianity again (non secular), confusion and finally Buddhism.

If you find you are experiencing feelings or guilt, existential fear, or that you may have 'bretrayed' or angered your previous object/s of worship (God/s), but would like to continue practice, there are a few things I might suggest which could be of use to you.

Humbly I offer that when we feel fear and guilt these negative afflictions stem from ignorance particularly. As we meditate and become familiar with the Dharma, building in sequence the realisations and acceptance of the 4 noble truths and particularly the teachings on impermanence, dependent origination, causes and conditions, then in sequence emptiness and finally non-self we may come to a place in which these fears are no longer afflicting us.

'the dark night of the soul' in which we deal with concepts such as God as a transcendent being have the power to make us feel very powerful emotions and negative thoughts, especially for those of us who have had previous strongly held opposing beliefs. To take refuge in a supreme being, and to take refuge in general is something deeply natural for humans. Some Buddhists take refuge in the Goddess Tara, and hold her and not the three jewels as their main point of refuge. This is absolutely fine and suits the mental and spiritual inclinations of these practioners.
The right spiritual teaching is the teaching best suited to the individual.

Remember to always go to the Dharma as perhaps the most important of the three jewels in these circumstances. As you build your house of wisdom do so methodical ly making sure each understanding, reinforced with meditation is solid before moving to far ahead and tackling concepts which may cause you problems if examined to closely to quickly. All the walls must be solid before trying to put on the roof or your gonna end up with tiles in your cornflakes.
Dependent origination and emptiness particularly helped me with my own struggles with my own God (I won).

When you feel scared take refuge in the Buddha, his compassion and the knowledge that he would never do anything to hurt you or put you in harm's way.

Rely on the Sangha and community by talking about these things when motivated to do so.

I'm with you. It can be a scary thing sometimes but your not alone by any means. Sure scared the hell outta me at first...

I recommend the Dalai Lamas books as a great source of these topics approached in order for the layman such as myself and anything I got right in my advise I gleaned from books written by the honoured gentleman. The mistakes I may have made are purely my own.
Thank you very much for your concern :anjali:

Also thank you to everybody else for their replies
Soma999
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by Soma999 »

It depends the vow.

If you promised for exemple to do a pilgrimage, you may still do it and integrate that in your current faith, as an offering of yourself, as a sadhana.

If it is to do specific prayer, maybe you can integrate it in your new practice. Like if all your old vows are being integrated in your new practice but in another form.

Just some suggestion.
TannersHatch
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:58 pm

Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by TannersHatch »

spess wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:02 pm
Thank you very much for your concern :anjali:

Also thank you to everybody else for their replies
No probs :smile:
If you ever want to talk about this some more and don't feel comfortable posting, please feel free to message me for a chat if you'd like to.
It's nice to have the ear of folks with similar experiences to bounce ideas or concerns off sometimes and I feel honoured to have been able to talk even a little about this with you. All the best now.
Last edited by TannersHatch on Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by SilenceMonkey »

There was another short thread about this recently.

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=38566
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明安 Myoan
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by 明安 Myoan »

The Three Jewels, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, are called the sources of true refuge, because they are trustworthy as it pertains to your long-term benefit, as well as those around you.
This includes refuge from fear and regret about other (or former) religions. At least, it has for me.
If you find something which has a positive impact on your life, your state of mind, how you treat others, your long-term goals for yourself, then you don't really have a sense of loss from pursuing it, especially when your trust is well placed.
Namu Amida Butsu
UltimateArts13
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by UltimateArts13 »

KathyLauren wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:59 pm If I had made a vow to an entity and later realized that that entity did not exist, to whom would I renounce the vow? The vow is null and void by virtue of that entity not existing. Similarly, if I had made a vow to a teacher and later realized that they were a false teacher, the vow is null and void by virtue of that teacher being unworthy of a vow.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
One might still believe the deity exists but is no longer worthy of worship. Such as a deist learning of the Buddha’s teachings on mahabrahma might believe they are no longer worthy.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Removing/renouncing vows made to figures of other religions

Post by SilenceMonkey »

UltimateArts13 wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:42 pm
KathyLauren wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:59 pm If I had made a vow to an entity and later realized that that entity did not exist, to whom would I renounce the vow? The vow is null and void by virtue of that entity not existing. Similarly, if I had made a vow to a teacher and later realized that they were a false teacher, the vow is null and void by virtue of that teacher being unworthy of a vow.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
One might still believe the deity exists but is no longer worthy of worship. Such as a deist learning of the Buddha’s teachings on mahabrahma might believe they are no longer worthy.
Do you believe in Buddha?

:guns:
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