Why is enlightenment never mentioned in 4NT and 8FP?

[Supramundane]

I would like to hear people's view on some of my thoughts regarding the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path. 

We assume that the ultimate aim of Buddhists is to end rebirth, reach enlightenment and enter Nirvana. If so, then why are none of these concepts mentioned in the Four Noble Truths or in the Noble Eightfold Path? 

Three of the Noble Truths can be called non-permanent. There is one Noble Truth, however, that is permanent, which is the Third Noble Truth on cessation (as pointed out in Queen Srimālā of the Lion's Roar Sutra). 

One might say that the goal of cessation is to end rebirth, but we may also say that the goal of cessation is to reach enlightenment; and we may also conclude that the goal of cessation is to enter Nirvana. So if this is so important, why did the Buddha not mention any of these terms? In fact, there is zero mention of any of these terms in either the Eightfold Path or the Four Noble Truths.

Many concepts --- depending on your tradition --- can be qualified as the unspoken intention behind the Third Noble Truth. We may theorize that we seek cessation to find Fundamental Mind (Platform Sutra); or we may conclude that the purpose of cessation is to realize True Self (Maha Prajnaparamita Sutra); or the purpose of cessation may be to realize the Ocean Wisdom of Dharmadhātu ... or Bhutatahata... or Buddahood (Sutra of Complete Enlightenment). Which one is it?

Many of these terms may be for all intents and purposes interchangeable. Perhaps this is the reason why the Buddha did not wish to be pinned down to just one term. In other words, it is a given there are myriad paths in Buddhism, be it Buddhahood, true nature, original mind, Non-Duality, True Self, Fundamental Mind, etc. 

In the same way --- applying the foregoing argument to the Noble Eightfold Path or Bodhisattva Path --- the "right' is not meant to be right as in "correct' or as an Aristotelian concept of moderation, but "right" is probably an abbeviated rendition of the 'middle' in middle way. And the middle way is the very essence of the Buddha's thought system: it is his prime insight into the nature of reality, I would say. But, as is the case with the Four Noble Truths, the middle way is never even mentioned in the 8NT: it is splinters off into various paths, such as the Two Truths, non-dualism, among others.

Could it be that many of these concepts are in fact if not synonymous then concurrent and interconnected? If you end rebirth, obviously you will have reached enlightenment --- if you achieve total cessation, obviously, you will know your Buddhanature --- if you realize the Noble Eightfold Path, obviously you will be the Tathāgatagharba, etc etc. 

Thus, it was not necessary for the Buddha to name the ultimate goal of the 4NT and the N8FP since doing so would put limitations and barriers on something which is beyond words and limits... and he realized that there are many different paths... the key is to develop Bodhicitta and cultivate the six parāmitā in our own way.

Interested in hearing your views...

[PadmaVonSamba]

1. Best to rely on actual Pali/Sanskrit terms, not English language concepts such as “Enlightenment” (a term the Buddha did not use) which have been employed over time to express the meaning of the original terms.

2. The Buddha gave a lot of teachings, of which the 4 Noble Truths and 8fold path are but two. Most of the time his teachings were answers to questions asked.

We assume that the ultimate aim of Buddhists is to end rebirth, reach enlightenment and enter Nirvana. If so, then why are none of these concepts mentioned in the Four Noble Truths or in the Noble Eightfold Path?

The eightfold path is essentially the fourth noble truth. Strictly speaking, if you follow the eightfold path, you cut off the causes of rebirth. In other words, this is the recipe. Thus, The Buddha does in fact teach the path to cessation and nirvana.

It’s a bit like asking why, in a list of ingredients for baking chocolate chip cookies, there are eggs, flour, sugar, and so on, but there are no cookies included.

[Supramundane]

Well, all true, but I reiterate my initial question: Why not mention rebirth, Nirvana and enlightenment then?

To apply your analogy, would you follow a recipe if you did not know what you are cooking? Why not label it a recipe to make cookies?

[Aryjna]

Well, all true, but I reiterate my initial question: Why not mention rebirth, Nirvana and enlightenment then?

"Enlightenment" is the third noble truth.

[Supramundane]

Cessation leads to many things ... Enlightenment could be one....

[Aryjna]

Cessation leads to many things ... Enlightenment could be one....

The English word enlightenment itself is irrelevant. In this context it should just refer to nirvana. The third noble truth is nirvana and the fourth noble truth is the path that leads to the third noble truth. This is not ambiguous.

[Supramundane]

Except nirvana is never mentioned... that's my point.

Why not just say nirvana... nirodha is similar.... i guess.... could be...

[krodha]

Except nirvana is never mentioned... that's my point.

Why not just say nirvana... nirodha is similar.... i guess.... could be...

Nirvana is the “cessation of suffering” or the “end to suffering” that characterizes the third noble truth.

[Supramundane]

Yes, it is the end of suffering, the end of rebirth, the realization of Buddha nature and i guess Nirvana too, yes.
Cessation is non duality....

Nirodha is cessation of experience, of karma... it is extinction of our false mind-body. It is discovery of the True Self.

Did anyone read my initial post?

[Bristollad]

Have you read the Dhammacakkapavattana Sutta? The 4NT are introduced as the way to attain peace, enlightenment and nirvana...

"Bhikkhus, these two extremes should not be followed by one who has gone forth into homelessness. What two? The pursuit of sensual happiness in sensual pleasures, which is low, vulgar, the way of worldlings, ignoble, unbeneficial; and the pursuit of self-mortification, which is painful, ignoble, unbeneficial. Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathagata has awakened to the middle way, which gives rise to vision, which gives rise to knowledge, which leads to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbana.
"And what, bhikkhus, is that middle way awakened to by the Tathagata, which gives rise to vision ... which leads to Nibbana? It is this noble eightfold path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. This, bhikkhus, is that middle way awakened to by the Tathagata, which gives rise to vision, which gives rise to knowledge, which leads to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbana.
Setting in Motion the Wheel of the Dhamma. Translated from the Pali by Bhikkhu Bodhi
https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut001.htm

"Bhikkhus, these two extremes ought not to be cultivated by one gone forth from the house-life. What are the two? There is devotion to indulgence of pleasure in the objects of sensual desire, which is inferior, low, vulgar, ignoble, and leads to no good; and there is devotion to self-torment, which is painful, ignoble and leads to no good.
"The middle way discovered by a Perfect One avoids both these extremes; it gives vision, it gives knowledge, and it leads to peace, to direct acquaintance, to discovery, to nibbana. And what is that middle way? It is simply the noble eightfold path, that is to say, right view, right intention; right speech, right action, right livelihood; right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. That is the middle way discovered by a Perfect One, which gives vision, which gives knowledge, and which leads to peace, to direct acquaintance, to discovery, to nibbana.
Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta: Setting Rolling the Wheel of Truth, translated from the Pali by Ñanamoli Thera
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html

or from one of the Tibetan equivalents:

“Seekers of virtue, for so long as I had not given rise to vision, given rise to understanding, awareness, knowledge, and realization in regard to the Four Noble Truths, enumerated into their three phases and consequent twelve modes, I was not emancipated from this world with its Devas, with its Māras, with its Brahmās, with its living beings including spiritual contemplatives and priests, with its gods and humans; I did not have liberation and definitive deliverance, did not increasingly abide with a mind of utter freedom, without distortion, and, O seekers of virtue, I did not know what is called ‘the unparalleled authentically complete awakening of manifestly complete Buddhahood’.”

“Seekers of virtue, when I had given rise to vision, given rise to understanding, awareness, knowledge, and realization in regard to the Four Noble Truths, enumerated into their three phases and consequent twelve modes, thereafter I was emancipated from this world with its Devas, with its Māras, with its Brahmās, with its living beings including spiritual contemplatives and priests, with its gods and humans; I did have liberation and definitive deliverance, did increasingly abide with a mind of utter freedom, without distortion, and, O seekers of virtue, thereafter I did know what is called ’the unparalleled authentically complete awakening of manifestly complete Buddhahood’.”
The Tibetan ‘Missing Translator’s Colophon’ Version of the Dharma Wheel Discourse (chos kyi ‘khor lo’i mdo ‘gyur byang med pa): A New Translation into English by Erick Tsiknopoulos (2013)
https://tibetantranslations.com/2013/11 ... ng-med-pa/

[Supramundane]

Yes, thank you BL for bolstering my argument.
Appreciated.

[Bristollad]

You are simply mistaken. I'm not sure what you are trying to show.
I'll repeat since you seem to have missed it

The 4NT are introduced as the way to attain peace, enlightenment and nirvana...

[PadmaVonSamba]

Except nirvana is never mentioned... that's my point.

Why not just say nirvana... nirodha is similar.... i guess.... could be...

The third noble truth, the truth of the cessation of suffering, is nirvana.

The cessation of suffering is nirvana.

[Supramundane]

So you contend that nirodha is synonymous with nirvana?

[Bristollad]

nirodha is a cessation
nirvana is the cessation of all suffering

Similar, definitely connected ideas but not mutually inclusive.

[Supramundane]

nirodha is a cessation
nirvana is the cessation of all suffering

Similar, definitely connected ideas but not mutually inclusive.

Exactly.

I agree. Nirodha means inhibited or release.

Nir = without

Udaya = rising/sprouting

The Buddha probably chose it for its opposition to the word "samodaya", which means arising together.

And my initial question was whether he did not choose the word Nirvana because Nirvana is not [exclusively] the aim of cessation; all things considered, it is too complex to be subsumed in the simple word 'nirvana'. He intentionally focused on the process rather than the goal.

That process is the noble eightfold path.

[Malcolm]

One might say that the goal of cessation is to end rebirth, but we may also say that the goal of cessation is to reach enlightenment; and we may also conclude that the goal of cessation is to enter Nirvana.

The first question is, what do you mean by enlightenment. It is not at all clear.

[Supramundane]

One might say that the goal of cessation is to end rebirth, but we may also say that the goal of cessation is to reach enlightenment; and we may also conclude that the goal of cessation is to enter Nirvana.

The first question is, what do you mean by enlightenment. It is not at all clear.

Exactly. The point i am making is that the purpose of cessation could be interpreted as: ending rebirth; reaching nirvana; or realizing enlightenment....

And i suspect that the Buddha purposefully did not mention any of these terms.

His mission was to end suffering, and there are many ways to do this: this is why he never mentioned Nirvana, rebirth or enlightenment.

What do you think, M ?

I think it must be meaningful that enlightenment and Nirvana are not mentioned at all in the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path.

[Queequeg]

In not so many words, isn't it because the 4NT and 8FP are framed as unbinding, which is also described as awakening (ie, enlightenment) in other contexts? Different ways to explain things. The confusion is because these various explanations are contextual, and hearing things out of context, as most of us well know, tends to create confusion.

[Supramundane]

One might say that the goal of cessation is to end rebirth, but we may also say that the goal of cessation is to reach enlightenment; and we may also conclude that the goal of cessation is to enter Nirvana.

The first question is, what do you mean by enlightenment. It is not at all clear.

I'm not speaking of Enlightenment, but rather the absence thereof!

To respond in another way, let's suppose we asked 100 Buddhists what the purpose of Buddhism is. We would get various answers, and I'm sure that among them, there would be the following terms:

Enlightenment
Ending rebirth
Nirvana
Becoming a Bodhisattva

and yet interestingly enough, none of these terms are in the Four Noble Truths or the Noble Eightfold Path.

Their absence is conspicuous, and I think there must be a reason for this. Perhaps the Buddha did not wish to create a goal-oriented system; or perhaps there are many paths, and he did not wish to limit Buddhism to one path.

...or perhaps another reason... ?