So much Pain and Confusion.

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SkyFox
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So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by SkyFox »

Hey guys, I don't know where to start but to say I'm in so much pain and confusion right now. I got into Buddhism seriously a while back (6 months?). At first, everything was good. Through detachment, I was able to get rid of a lot of bad habits that have been plaguing me for many years ( craving for junk food, anger issues, ect..) and overall have become a lot more composed, calm, and caring; things don't bother much me much anymore, and my desire for material has greatly declined, as I no longer see the point. However, as I started getting deeper into Buddhism, I started becoming more scared and confused.

I feel miserable because I know one day I will have to leave my family and won't remember them in my next life. I feel miserable because I have convinced myself everything is illusionary, and therefore have loss motivation to do or feel anything. Joy, happiness, excitement? Those are just feelings.. MEH. I no longer see my parents as family but rather friends on the same path, which is kinda sad. Finally, I see the epitome of Buddhism is attaining Buddhahood, but it scares me to think that the ultimate reward is to become a lonely being devoid of family or friends and any emotion/desires other than compassion to free other beings ( I know once you've obtained Buddahood, all those things I listed wouldn't bother you anymore, but still the thought is scary) Not to mention, I would have to give up love for my family. I almost feel like we are describing a robot that has been programmed. ( don't mean any disrespect at all) How exactly does a Buddha not become lonely and depressed? Also, I thought the Buddha's lifespan was enternal but apparently even he is subjected to impermanence? What happens when the Buddha passes on? In my sorrow, I sometimes imagine we are some sick cosmic joke to some higher dimensional being. This being is rearing us to become enlighten so it can feast on our essences, kinda like how we raise animals, or maybe it is simply doing an experiment( don't take this literally, I'm just feeling really crappy)

I wish I could believe in another religion, something that would allow me to spend enternity with my family in exchange for good deeds, but the Buddha is right; there is just no denying it :crying: It doesn't help that I keep reading Buddhism on reddit. Everyone there is apparently a master, always quoting stuff about emptiness, no self, detachment, and taking things out of context; most probably don't even know half of what they are saying, but it still does make me depress. I mean even monks have activities that they enjoy right?


I've come here for a bit of help. I've read these forums for a while and many of the members seem to be very knowledgeable; thank you

Fyi- I will never harm myself or suicide as we know where that leads, so no worries :smile:
Jesse
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by Jesse »

You've misinterpreted the teachings, nothing more.

What you describe is called Nihilism, it is one of the two extremes warned about by the Buddha.

Buddhism does not deny that thing's exist in a conventional sense, it denies that they ultimately have any essence. The two are entirely different. You need to discuss your understanding of emptiness with someone qualified.
Finally, I see the epitome of Buddhism is attaining Buddhahood, but it scares me to think that the ultimate reward is to become a lonely being devoid of family or friends and any emotion/desires other than compassion to free other beings.
Sorry, I have to chuckle a bit at that. Your making ultimate liberation sound like something depressing. It's the ultimate happiness. I believe the term compassion to be synonymous with understanding. A being with a complete understanding is the furthest possible thing from the depressing mess you believe it to be.

It is our reliance on our thoughts that leads us to suffer. The notions you believe to be so important, the ideas you wrestle with, how you perceive reality to be, all of these are nothing more than attachment to ideas, views, and reliance on the thinking mind.

As a Buddhist, meditation is important because it allows us to perceive the flaw in relying on the thinking mind. Being stuck in our thoughts creates our suffering.

This story you've been telling yourself is just more delusion, instead of thinking you have it all figured out; why not continue learning, continue meditating without believing you've figured everything out just yet.

You just may be surprised.
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A flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
A flickering lamp, a phantom, and a dream.
muni
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by muni »

ConfusedOne wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:20 am Hey guys, I don't know where to start but to say I'm in so much pain and confusion right now. I got into Buddhism seriously a while back (6 months?). At first, everything was good. Through detachment, I was able to get rid of a lot of bad habits that have been plaguing me for many years ( craving for junk food, anger issues, ect..) and overall have become a lot more composed, calm, and caring; things don't bother much me much anymore, and my desire for material has greatly declined, as I no longer see the point. However, as I started getting deeper into Buddhism, I started becoming more scared and confused.

I feel miserable because I know one day I will have to leave my family and won't remember them in my next life. I feel miserable because I have convinced myself everything is illusionary, and therefore have loss motivation to do or feel anything. Joy, happiness, excitement? Those are just feelings.. MEH. I no longer see my parents as family but rather friends on the same path, which is kinda sad. Finally, I see the epitome of Buddhism is attaining Buddhahood, but it scares me to think that the ultimate reward is to become a lonely being devoid of family or friends and any emotion/desires other than compassion to free other beings ( I know once you've obtained Buddahood, all those things I listed wouldn't bother you anymore, but still the thought is scary) Not to mention, I would have to give up love for my family. I almost feel like we are describing a robot that has been programmed. ( don't mean any disrespect at all) How exactly does a Buddha not become lonely and depressed? Also, I thought the Buddha's lifespan was enternal but apparently even he is subjected to impermanence? What happens when the Buddha passes on? In my sorrow, I sometimes imagine we are some sick cosmic joke to some higher dimensional being. This being is rearing us to become enlighten so it can feast on our essences, kinda like how we raise animals, or maybe it is simply doing an experiment( don't take this literally, I'm just feeling really crappy)

I wish I could believe in another religion, something that would allow me to spend enternity with my family in exchange for good deeds, but the Buddha is right; there is just no denying it :crying: It doesn't help that I keep reading Buddhism on reddit. Everyone there is apparently a master, always quoting stuff about emptiness, no self, detachment, and taking things out of context; most probably don't even know half of what they are saying, but it still does make me depress. I mean even monks have activities that they enjoy right?


I've come here for a bit of help. I've read these forums for a while and many of the members seem to be very knowledgeable; thank you

Fyi- I will never harm myself or suicide as we know where that leads, so no worries :smile:
I am sorry for your feelings, I recognize them. First I would say what you experience is passing, because that is the nature of confusion and pain, it passes.
Since this impermanence makes sad, it is good to remember that this sadness is as well impermanent.

The illusory is because of our personal movie in our head, our chattering within by which we then color everything in the environment in accordance with that inner experience. That is a habit we humans all have. If we should not, no Buddha would have to give guidelines how to see that and how to be able to relax, more open and caring.

In our pain and struggle we finally could see the need to understand how our mind is tricking us, how it masters our "well being" or better said how it delude us. And how we are conditioned by pain and pleasure, ups and downs.

The idea of being a person on its own, alone, can be reduced by caring for our family, and spread this care for others, putting a bit more focus on others, in the way we can. Not harming neither ourselves.

Nature what we really are, loses nothing, all is included. Like all what flows in the open sky, the sky loses nothing.
Therefore follow an awaken master, guiding by the teachings of the Buddha and lasting happiness or lasting contentment without the ups and downs, is our nature.

Be less conditioned by the ups and downs is what "we" deserve, so to speak.

I feel, do not take everything so heavy serious, courage onto the path is good but it may not become something what causes low mood.

You do not walk alone. There are spiritual friends, Masters to guide and protect.

Ps There are Masters online. Tomorrow is there as well a meditation and teaching, accessible for all, by Anam Thubten Rinpoche, gently guiding through Compassion-Wisdom. The talk is: "Freedom in the Realm of Non-abiding". Oh yes, this is not about nihilism. :smile:

Feel free.

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Last edited by muni on Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Dan74
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by Dan74 »

It sounds like you are approaching becoming Buddhism as a belief, an ideology that makes sense to you, while Buddhism is a practice. All the teachings are there to help us with our practice and not beliefs to hold on to. Sometimes we learn of a teaching way too early, before we are able to use it properly.

I'd try to focus on the basics. The 6 Paramitas. https://ordinaryzensangha.org/wp-conten ... amitas.pdf

Meditation under the guidance of a teacher. And not reading too much reddit.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

ConfusedOne wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:20 am I feel miserable because I know one day I will have to leave my family and won't remember them in my next life.
but hasn’t this been going on for a million years? And yet, you turned out okay.
I feel miserable because I have convinced myself everything is illusionary, and therefore have loss motivation to do or feel anything.
if you were really convinced that everything is illusionary, you’d also experience those negative feelings as mere illusions, and they wouldn’t bother you. But since they do bother you, it’s safe to say that you haven’t actually convinced yourself of that.
So, maybe just back things up a bit.

Also, it’s not that phenomena are illusions (maybe they are, and maybe they aren’t…does that really matter?). The point is, it’s our perspective that is the illusion. We see what we think we see. So, maybe what you are “meh” about isn’t what’s really out there, but about your own interpretations of things. If that’s the case, then that’s a really good thing. It shows that you can open up to all kinds of possibilities, and not just what you may have limited yourself to before.
I no longer see my parents as family but rather friends on the same path, which is kinda sad.
yeah, it is kind of sad. It’s also a distortion. We are all on the same path. Every being desires to have peace of mind. That is ultimately the motivation for everything we do, good or bad, to return the mind to its original position.
Finally, I see the epitome of Buddhism is attaining Buddhahood, but it scares me to think that the ultimate reward is to become a lonely being devoid of family or friends and any emotion/desires other than compassion to free other beings
“ultimate reward” is not quite accurate. Also, “all beings” would include friends and family. “All beings” would basically be your friends and family.
I would have to give up love for my family.
Don’t worry…by the time you become a Buddha, they will have long since perished.
I almost feel like we are describing a robot that has been programmed.
To return your mind to its original factory setting, press the small red button.
:rolling:
Sorry, but I think you are simply projecting a lot of fears but those fears are based on a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings, which I think will be cleared up as you continue to study and practice.
Six months practicing Buddhism isn’t very long.
Even growing corn takes longer than that!
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SkyFox
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by SkyFox »

I would like to thank everyone for your kind words. I'm starting to feel a bit better; I guess that's the good thing about impermanence. I'm finally feeling hungry again today, which is a sensation that I haven't felt all week.

Also kindly, could someone explain to me the matter regarding a Buddha's life span? I thought that once he dies and enters the afterlife his life span becomes limitless? I read somewhere on this forum that apparently that is not true, and it's only measureless? So what happens when he passes on?
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by Malcolm »

ConfusedOne wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:20 am

I've come here for a bit of help. I've read these forums for a while and many of the members seem to be very knowledgeable; thank you
The cure for your situation is cultivating loving kindness and compassion.
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SkyFox
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by SkyFox »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:30 pm
ConfusedOne wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:20 am

I've come here for a bit of help. I've read these forums for a while and many of the members seem to be very knowledgeable; thank you
The cure for your situation is cultivating loving kindness and compassion.
TBH, that's the one really good thing I've taken away from Buddhism so far. I no longer see insects as insignificant creatures. Color on someone's skin seem not so different anymore. People's words seem to matter a lot less now. And finally, I feel so bad for these people with hundreds of millions of dollars yet never seem satisfy. They have enough to last them 10 life times yet keep chasing; every time the number increases there is that fleeting feeling of joy that is gained and people mistaken it for purpose, not realising that they've chased and will continue to do so for many more lives to come in the hopes of finding satisfaction.
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by Malcolm »

ConfusedOne wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:51 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:30 pm
ConfusedOne wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:20 am

I've come here for a bit of help. I've read these forums for a while and many of the members seem to be very knowledgeable; thank you
The cure for your situation is cultivating loving kindness and compassion.
TBH, that's the one really good thing I've taken away from Buddhism so far. I no longer see insects as insignificant creatures. Color on someone's skin seem not so different anymore. People's words seem to matter a lot less now. And finally, I feel so bad for these people with hundreds of millions of dollars yet never seem satisfy. They have enough to last them 10 life times yet keep chasing; every time the number increases there is that fleeting feeling of joy that is gained and people mistaken it for purpose, not realising that they've chased and will continue to do so for many more lives to come in the hopes of finding satisfaction.
A practitioner has to fly on two wings: emptiness, to cut attachment to existence; compassion, to cut attachment to nonexistence.
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SkyFox
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by SkyFox »

A practitioner has to fly on two wings: emptiness, to cut attachment to existence; compassion, to cut attachment to nonexistence.

I really like this quote; it really puts things into perspective, thank you :D
Last edited by SkyFox on Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
genkaku.linrx
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by genkaku.linrx »

I laughed a little when I read this thread, I have been there and done that between year 2008 and 2013, and at the end what saved me was to switch from practising austerity to chanting a more light hearted Cundi dharani. I am not saying that Cundi bodhisattva practice helps, all I am saying is that when we take on too much pain and confusion, sometimes we get stuck in bodhi practice, and the solution is to do something more light hearted and simpler in nature so that life can go on. At the end of the day we are not going to become Buddha this lifetime - this is widely accepted in Mahayana and Theravada - so there is no need to be too harsh on ourselves. Just take up a more light hearted practice, and love your loved ones like you used to, and as the rest says, practise loving kindness and compassion, you would be fine.

:meditate:
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by SkyFox »

genkaku.linrx wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:54 am I laughed a little when I read this thread, I have been there and done that between year 2008 and 2013, and at the end what saved me was to switch from practising austerity to chanting a more light hearted Cundi dharani. I am not saying that Cundi bodhisattva practice helps, all I am saying is that when we take on too much pain and confusion, sometimes we get stuck in bodhi practice, and the solution is to do something more light hearted and simpler in nature so that life can go on. At the end of the day we are not going to become Buddha this lifetime - this is widely accepted in Mahayana and Theravada - so there is no need to be too harsh on ourselves. Just take up a more light hearted practice, and love your loved ones like you used to, and as the rest says, practise loving kindness and compassion, you would be fine.

:meditate:
Can you explain to me what you mean by been there and done that? I think a little context would help me a lot :bow: I'm going through phases right now; happy one second and bawling my eyes out in another; it's like I'm on a never ending roller coaster. I can't seem to get over the fact that all 'meaningful' relationships ( father, son, mother, wife) we ever have had is but an illusion.

Is it true that the Buddha said that we've all been each other's mother at one point in time?
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

ConfusedOne wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:41 pm
I can't seem to get over the fact that all 'meaningful' relationships ( father, son, mother, wife) we ever have had is but an illusion.

Is it true that the Buddha said that we've all been each other's mother at one point in time?
In a few words, and as precisely as you can, please explain what the phrase “…but an illusion” means to you, because that seems to be the issue.

What do you think the meaning of “illusion” is?
Illusion compared to what?

I think if you work through these questions, it will help to resolve some of your conflicts.

Not sure if “all beings have been our mothers in the past” came from the Buddha or if it came later. But it’s not meant to be taken as an abstract truth. It might not even be mathematically possible. But it is meant as a meditation for generating compassion for all beings. It’s better to keep it within that context.
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SkyFox
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by SkyFox »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:37 pm
ConfusedOne wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:41 pm
I can't seem to get over the fact that all 'meaningful' relationships ( father, son, mother, wife) we ever have had is but an illusion.

Is it true that the Buddha said that we've all been each other's mother at one point in time?
In a few words, and as precisely as you can, please explain what the phrase “…but an illusion” means to you, because that seems to be the issue.

What do you think the meaning of “illusion” is?
Illusion compared to what?

I think if you work through these questions, it will help to resolve some of your conflicts.

Not sure if “all beings have been our mothers in the past” came from the Buddha or if it came later. But it’s not meant to be taken as an abstract truth. It might not even be mathematically possible. But it is meant as a meditation for generating compassion for all beings. It’s better to keep it within that context.
Well.. What I see as my mother, the one that I most love, could very well be my father, brother, lover,pet, or enemy in some life. Something about that seems so sad...It kinda takes the meaning out of family, especially someone with an Asian background.

Is my writing a bit too messy :oops: Sorry, just too much emotions.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

ConfusedOne wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:49 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:37 pm
ConfusedOne wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:41 pm
I can't seem to get over the fact that all 'meaningful' relationships ( father, son, mother, wife) we ever have had is but an illusion.

Is it true that the Buddha said that we've all been each other's mother at one point in time?
Not sure if “all beings have been our mothers in the past” came from the Buddha or if it came later. But it’s not meant to be taken as an abstract truth. It might not even be mathematically possible. But it is meant as a meditation for generating compassion for all beings. It’s better to keep it within that context.
Well.. What I see as my mother, the one that I most love, could very well be my father, brother, lover,pet, or enemy in some life. Something about that seems so sad...It kinda takes the meaning out of family, especially someone with an Asian background.
So, you are going to take it out of context anyway.
Okay. That’s your choice.

It means that your enemy in this life was your mother in a past life. Likewise, you were his mother. Maybe you were the mother mosquito who laid a million eggs.

But you are missing the big picture. It’s meaning is to give a sense of the vastness of time and existence, and therefore the vastness of compassion.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by Tata1 »

Maybe try to keep it practical?
4 noble truths.
There is a problem, suffering
There is a cause
There is a solution
There is a path

Work with the path to remove the cause of your confusion. Not much use in creating more stories in your head
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by AppearanceVoid »

Friend, I feel sorry for you, I do. Feeling sorry about your family and leaving them behind makes you miserable, I know but, you aren't leaving them forever. Cherish your kin while you and them are alive while you can look at them, be with them, alive and appreciate them. I mean you can always appreciate them but do it now, from the heart.

Buddhas may or may not get lonely but they don't suffer. They transcend suffering. All of their karma that would cause suffering gets burnt up long, long before buddhahood. I'm working at it but all you must do is recognize your mind's nature for that to happen.
Impermanence is a mark of Samsara. The Buddha himself said, "The ending of birth is death". The Buddhas' life is eternal, meaning he and we always live because there is no death.

If you wish for another religion while buddhist, you'll get it, next time your human, only you won't even hear the sound "Buddha" for a while. My advice, friend: To see your family again and never be enemies, practice loving-kindness for them. Treasure the moments your together. Live in aspiration. If you want the truth or you want to be a better son, person, etc.,have your heart towards it and be it.
I'm glad you won't commit suicide. The Avichi is an ocean of pain and tears. If you ever want to write, look me up.....
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SkyFox
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Re: So much Pain and Confusion.

Post by SkyFox »

AppearanceVoid wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:17 pm Friend, I feel sorry for you, I do. Feeling sorry about your family and leaving them behind makes you miserable, I know but, you aren't leaving them forever. Cherish your kin while you and them are alive while you can look at them, be with them, alive and appreciate them. I mean you can always appreciate them but do it now, from the heart.

Buddhas may or may not get lonely but they don't suffer. They transcend suffering. All of their karma that would cause suffering gets burnt up long, long before buddhahood. I'm working at it but all you must do is recognize your mind's nature for that to happen.
Impermanence is a mark of Samsara. The Buddha himself said, "The ending of birth is death". The Buddhas' life is eternal, meaning he and we always live because there is no death.

If you wish for another religion while buddhist, you'll get it, next time your human, only you won't even hear the sound "Buddha" for a while. My advice, friend: To see your family again and never be enemies, practice loving-kindness for them. Treasure the moments your together. Live in aspiration. If you want the truth or you want to be a better son, person, etc.,have your heart towards it and be it.
I'm glad you won't commit suicide. The Avichi is an ocean of pain and tears. If you ever want to write, look me up.....
Thank you friend. Sometimes I feel like I can't handle reality and would be better off dead. But even in my worst moments of despair, I refuse to go that last step. I would never want to hurt those around me, and I know more suffering awaits after death. also, I like to think that I'm burning off bad Karma from previous lives.

As bad as this sounds, I sometimes read stories about people losing love ones, which helps me see clearly about how my actions might affect others.
Last edited by SkyFox on Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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