Yes, and this is acknowledged in traditional Indian commentaries; that is, the that term "dukha" itself refers to duhka-duhka. The other two dukhas are considered dukha because everything pleasant becomes a source of pain, and everything neutral falls apart.
Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
Last edited by Malcolm on Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
^^^So what’s the real Dharma if everything else is misconception?
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
It’s what isn’t everything else.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:30 pm ^^^So what’s the real Dharma if everything else is misconception?
EMPTIFUL.
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An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
What gives birth to Dharma?PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:12 pmIt’s what isn’t everything else.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:30 pm ^^^So what’s the real Dharma if everything else is misconception?
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
That question doesn’t make sense.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:21 pmWhat gives birth to Dharma?PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:12 pmIt’s what isn’t everything else.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:30 pm ^^^So what’s the real Dharma if everything else is misconception?
It’s like asking, “why is everything?”
“The Dharma” meaning the Buddhist teachings
is simply the explanation of how things truly are.
So, you are asking, “what gives birth to the way things truly are?” or “what causes the truth about how everything exists?” Nothing causes that truth.Its simply the truth about things. It’s like asking “what causes the truth about the door being open?” It’s a non-question. Illogical.
Or, “dharma” can mean an arising phenomena, as in “all dharmas are empty”. But nothing ‘gives birth’ to that either.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
‘Suffering’ is an abstract concept, meaning that it’s a word and you can give it any meaning you like. So, it’s really pointless to debate whether dukkha actually means suffering or not.
But the basic Buddhist reckoning is that either the mind is still, or it isn’t still. I just thought this was worth repeating, because there is a criteria. It’s not just one person’s opinion against someone else’s whether the day-to-day ups and downs of joy and sorrow count as ‘suffering’ or not.
So, like a candle that is either burning or not burning, regardless of how big the flame is,
if your mind is shaken by the movement of appearances, that in itself is sufficiently dukkha.
But the basic Buddhist reckoning is that either the mind is still, or it isn’t still. I just thought this was worth repeating, because there is a criteria. It’s not just one person’s opinion against someone else’s whether the day-to-day ups and downs of joy and sorrow count as ‘suffering’ or not.
So, like a candle that is either burning or not burning, regardless of how big the flame is,
if your mind is shaken by the movement of appearances, that in itself is sufficiently dukkha.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
The Buddha gave Dharma. Then Dharma is also given by us. You just gave Dharma no?PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:33 pmThat question doesn’t make sense.
It’s like asking, “why is everything?”
“The Dharma” meaning the Buddhist teachings
is simply the explanation of how things truly are.
So, you are asking, “what gives birth to the way things truly are?” or “what causes the truth about how everything exists?” Nothing causes that truth.Its simply the truth about things. It’s like asking “what causes the truth about the door being open?” It’s a non-question. Illogical.
Or, “dharma” can mean an arising phenomena, as in “all dharmas are empty”. But nothing ‘gives birth’ to that either.
It’s eye blinking.
- LastLegend
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
So like the Sutra:
1) nothing arises: non-arising
2) then everything arises from mind
Dharma is also arising from mind. The Buddha gave Dharma. But we understand Dharma and that’s understanding is from our mind not the Buddha mind anymore.
1) nothing arises: non-arising
2) then everything arises from mind
Dharma is also arising from mind. The Buddha gave Dharma. But we understand Dharma and that’s understanding is from our mind not the Buddha mind anymore.
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
You guys love to make the simple complicated.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:02 pm So like the Sutra:
1) nothing arises: non-arising
2) then everything arises from mind
Dharma is also arising from mind. The Buddha gave Dharma. But we understand Dharma and that’s understanding is from our mind not the Buddha mind anymore.
Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
What does that mean?LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:02 pm So like the Sutra:
1) nothing arises: non-arising
2) then everything arises from mind
Dharma is also arising from mind. The Buddha gave Dharma. But we understand Dharma and that’s understanding is from our mind not the Buddha mind anymore.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
Buddhas realize and expound the Dharma. They don't create it.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
You mean upaya isn’t real?Genjo Conan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:27 pmBuddhas realize and expound the Dharma. They don't create it.
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
I'm not sure how what you said follows from what I said. Buddhas use skillful means to expound the Dharma to sentient beings based on their understanding. They're not making up new Dharmas.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:00 pmYou mean upaya isn’t real?Genjo Conan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:27 pmBuddhas realize and expound the Dharma. They don't create it.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
Dharma doesn’t arise from mind.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:02 pm So like the Sutra:
1) nothing arises: non-arising
2) then everything arises from mind
Dharma is also arising from mind. The Buddha gave Dharma. But we understand Dharma and that’s understanding is from our mind not the Buddha mind anymore.
One’s understanding of dharma arises from mind.
That understanding is your Buddha nature.
In that sense, Buddha arises from mind.
So, in all your spaghetti reasoning
There are no tangles after all.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
So what Dharma are they preaching? Why does Diamond Sutra say there isn’t Dharma to be obtained? Then how do people progress on Bodhisattvapath?Genjo Conan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:04 pmI'm not sure how what you said follows from what I said. Buddhas use skillful means to expound the Dharma to sentient beings based on their understanding. They're not making up new Dharmas.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:00 pmYou mean upaya isn’t real?Genjo Conan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:27 pm
Buddhas realize and expound the Dharma. They don't create it.
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:21 pmSo Dharma says self is illusion. Then you say is illusion, are you not creating Dharma already with that?LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:02 pm So like the Sutra:
1) nothing arises: non-arising
2) then everything arises from mind
Dharma is also arising from mind. The Buddha gave Dharma. But we understand Dharma and that’s understanding is from our mind not the Buddha mind anymore.
Dharma doesn’t arise from mind.
One’s understanding of dharma arises from mind.
That understanding is your Buddha nature.
In that sense, Buddha arises from mind.
So, in all your spaghetti reasoning
There are no tangles after all.
So Dharma says self is illusion. Then you say is self illusion, are you not creating Dharma already with that? If you didn’t create that Dharma then who did?
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
There are two kinds of Dharma: the Dharma of realization and the Dharma of scripture. There is no third kind. The latter arises from the former. This notion that there is an eternal dharma is just an importation of the Hindu idea of Sanatana Dharma.PadmaVonSamba wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:21 pmDharma doesn’t arise from mind.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:02 pm So like the Sutra:
1) nothing arises: non-arising
2) then everything arises from mind
Dharma is also arising from mind. The Buddha gave Dharma. But we understand Dharma and that’s understanding is from our mind not the Buddha mind anymore.
One’s understanding of dharma arises from mind.
That understanding is your Buddha nature.
In that sense, Buddha arises from mind.
So, in all your spaghetti reasoning
There are no tangles after all.
Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
Unclear or non-sensical statements removed.
It is helpful to explain oneself and write naturally with ordinary words and when using terms of art use them with due precision.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!
What do you see when you turn out the lights?
What do you see when you turn out the lights?
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
The main misconception for us on the Bodhisattva path is that Dharma is one way. One way would be doing nothing after full realization and not conduct works that benefits beings in Samadhi. If we follow Lankavatara Sutra: everything is an illusion this body and the triple worlds are mere projection. It begs the question: if everything is an illusion and projection, how do fully realized individuals conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood? Basically, various sutras (describe full realization which includes transformation of depository consciousness which turns into wisdom, namely Lankavatara Sutra).
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism
Fully realized persons are buddhas. There are no other kinds of fully realized persons.LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:45 pm if everything is an illusion and projection, how do fully realized individuals conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood?