Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

LastLegend wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:45 pm The main misconception for us on the Bodhisattva path is that Dharma is one way. One way would be doing nothing after full realization and not conduct works that benefits beings in Samadhi. If we follow Lankavatara Sutra: everything is an illusion this body and the triple worlds are mere projection. It begs the question: if everything is an illusion and projection, how do fully realized individuals conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood? Basically, various sutras (describe full realization which includes transformation of depository consciousness which turns into wisdom, namely Lankavatara Sutra).
Please explain what difference it makes whether ‘everything is an illusion and projection’ or not, for individuals to ‘conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood’.
If the triple worlds are an illusion, so what?
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

LastLegend wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:45 pm The main misconception for us on the Bodhisattva path is that Dharma is one way. One way would be doing nothing after full realization and not conduct works that benefits beings in Samadhi. If we follow Lankavatara Sutra: everything is an illusion this body and the triple worlds are mere projection. It begs the question: if everything is an illusion and projection, how do fully realized individuals conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood? Basically, various sutras (describe full realization which includes transformation of depository consciousness which turns into wisdom, namely Lankavatara Sutra).
Please explain what difference it makes whether ‘everything is an illusion and projection’ or not, for individuals to ‘conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood’.
If the triple worlds are merely an illusion, so what?
EMPTIFUL.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:08 am
LastLegend wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:45 pm if everything is an illusion and projection, how do fully realized individuals conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood?
Fully realized persons are buddhas. There are no other kinds of fully realized persons.
I don’t equate a full blown Buddha to this:


Those who get this consciousness to disappear will then destroy the obstructing confusions of the Bodhisattvas of the ten stages. Once this consciousness is gone, then the mind is open and still, quiet, serene and calm, perfectly pure, and enormously stable.


https://terebess.hu/zen/daman.html
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Pg.111 Lankavatara Sutra


“Furthermore, Mahamati, shravakas who are afraid of the
suffering that comes from their projection of samsara seek
nirvana unaware that the difference between samsara and
nirvana, as well as their projection of everything else, does not
213
knowledge. Thus, ignorant people speak of three paths214 and
215
exist.
sensory realms, not the transformation of repository consciousness through the personal realization of buddha
They conceive of nirvana as the cessation of all future
not of the projection-free realm that is nothing but mind. Mahamati, they therefore do not know the realm of the mind perceived by tathagatas of the past, the present, and the future. Instead, they are attached to the perception of a realm outside the mind and keep turning the wheel of samsara.



Transformation of repository consciousness has to be done. Because it’s deep rooted and manifested in our thinking and everything we do. I mean to the point even Arhats still have it.


“Mahamati, except for tathagatas and those well along the bodhisattva path, the full extent of the subtlety of the repository consciousness remains completely beyond the ken of shravakas, pratyeka-buddhas, and practitioners of other paths, despite their powers of meditation and wisdom.”
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:24 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:08 am
LastLegend wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:45 pm if everything is an illusion and projection, how do fully realized individuals conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood?
Fully realized persons are buddhas. There are no other kinds of fully realized persons.
I don’t equate a full blown Buddha to this:


Those who get this consciousness to disappear will then destroy the obstructing confusions of the Bodhisattvas of the ten stages. Once this consciousness is gone, then the mind is open and still, quiet, serene and calm, perfectly pure, and enormously stable.


https://terebess.hu/zen/daman.html
Then you don't understand what buddhahood is.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:56 am
LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:24 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:08 am

Fully realized persons are buddhas. There are no other kinds of fully realized persons.
I don’t equate a full blown Buddha to this:


Those who get this consciousness to disappear will then destroy the obstructing confusions of the Bodhisattvas of the ten stages. Once this consciousness is gone, then the mind is open and still, quiet, serene and calm, perfectly pure, and enormously stable.


https://terebess.hu/zen/daman.html
Then you don't understand what buddhahood is.
:lol:

Okay try and let me know years later. I probably don’t know what Buddhahood is. I have no pre perceptions of how it is. I just know I need to transcend consciousness and there is work to be done after.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:15 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:56 am
LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:24 am

I don’t equate a full blown Buddha to this:


Those who get this consciousness to disappear will then destroy the obstructing confusions of the Bodhisattvas of the ten stages. Once this consciousness is gone, then the mind is open and still, quiet, serene and calm, perfectly pure, and enormously stable.


https://terebess.hu/zen/daman.html
Then you don't understand what buddhahood is.
:lol:

Okay try and let me know years later. I probably don’t who what Buddhahood is. I have no pre perceptions of how it is. I just know I need to transcend consciousness and there is work to be done after.
You can't transcend consciousness. You can however transcend afflictive and knowledge obscurations. When you have gone beyond the obscurations of the bodhisattvas of the ten stages, you will be a buddha. If you do not understand this, you do not understand Mahāyāna.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:19 am
LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:15 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:56 am

Then you don't understand what buddhahood is.
:lol:

Okay try and let me know years later. I probably don’t who what Buddhahood is. I have no pre perceptions of how it is. I just know I need to transcend consciousness and there is work to be done after.
You can't transcend consciousness. You can however transcend afflictive and knowledge obscurations. When you have gone beyond the obscurations of the bodhisattvas of the ten stages, you will be a buddha. If you do not understand this, you do not understand Mahāyāna.
:lol:

Empty talk.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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I mean if we want to take that route first then pursue towards Buddhahood. Why not?
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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But in your case you might encounter some obstacles because you have lead many people towards Dharma and because of that, your karma tangles with theirs.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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PadmaVonSamba wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:14 am
LastLegend wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:45 pm The main misconception for us on the Bodhisattva path is that Dharma is one way. One way would be doing nothing after full realization and not conduct works that benefits beings in Samadhi. If we follow Lankavatara Sutra: everything is an illusion this body and the triple worlds are mere projection. It begs the question: if everything is an illusion and projection, how do fully realized individuals conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood? Basically, various sutras (describe full realization which includes transformation of depository consciousness which turns into wisdom, namely Lankavatara Sutra).
Please explain what difference it makes whether ‘everything is an illusion and projection’ or not, for individuals to ‘conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood’.
If the triple worlds are merely an illusion, so what?
I was referring to pre-conceptions of what fully realized beings (gone beyond 10th stages, fully entered Samadhi of Dharmakaya) such as there is nothing to do other than enjoying their fruit. Such isn’t the case because they no longer cherish their material body and not shy away from encountering karma because they are capable of engaging with karma. We think karma is strictly individual it isn’t so because every interaction we have in the Saha world is weaving and tangling even on this forum. We don’t live in a vacuum or Pure Land of Bliss.

If everything is an illusion, so is Samsara and Nirvana. Fully realized beings are not shy away from karma. How so? Because they don’t conceive they don’t nothing to help sentient beings. To help sentient beings are actually helping themselves to transform their repository consciousness...Malcom disagreed he thinks that beings who have obtained Samadhi of Dharmakaya is done...no suffering nothing to do because they are considered Buddhas. That is only true when they have transformed their repository consciousness. Unless there is an alternative better way to transform repository consciousness. I quoted about repository consciousness to indicate it’s manifested deep rooted in our perceptions. It’s fine to disagree here, so we’ll let their personal experience speaks on long run.

Then he said we can transcend afflictive and knowledge...I am not sure how this is done. Whether people on here have done it. It might just be empty talk because eons of karma deep rooted that makes difficult. I think he meant the alternative route to end passion and delusional thoughts.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:29 pm
Then he said we can transcend afflictive and knowledge...I am not sure how this is done.
Hence my comment about your lack of understanding of Mahayana.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:02 pm
LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:29 pm
Then he said we can transcend afflictive and knowledge...I am not sure how this is done.
Hence my comment about your lack of understanding of Mahayana.
You can be generous and share how’s it done. I don’t mean to be offensive to you, but knowing a lot can hinder us. I am sure you know that.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:29 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:14 am Please explain what difference it makes whether ‘everything is an illusion and projection’ or not, for individuals to ‘conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood’.
If the triple worlds are merely an illusion, so what?
I was referring to pre-conceptions of…
Yeah all that, I trimmed it off. Anybody can scroll back up to read it.
But you don’t explain why it makes a difference whether it’s illusion or not.
This is in response to the question you put forward:
It begs the question: if everything is an illusion and projection, how do fully realized individuals conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood?
So again, what difference does it make?
My point is, Bodhisattvas (realized or merely aspiring) can “conduct their work to progress towards Buddhahood” regardless of whether or not “everything is an illusion and projection”.
…and for those not fully realized, they can ‘work to progress’ even if they don’t fully experience things as illusion.
Do you agree?
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:12 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:02 pm
LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:29 pm
Then he said we can transcend afflictive and knowledge...I am not sure how this is done.
Hence my comment about your lack of understanding of Mahayana.
You can be generous and share how’s it done.
Knowledge is not a hindrance. Ignorance is.

First, one generates bodhicitta, the desire to liberate all sentient beings from samsara. This has two aspects, ultimate and relative. The relative aspect refers to the aspiration, and then practicing the six perfections. Ultimate bodhicitta means practicing śamatha and vipaśyanā.

One practices these two bodhicitta together, until one realizes emptiness. This is the first bodhisattva bhumi. One continues to practice, until the practice of vipaśyanā has eradicated all traces of affliction (desire, hatred, and ignorance). This happens conventionally, at the seventh bhumi. Ultimately, has eradicated all traces of grasping to personal and phenomena identity, and one attains the omniscience of buddhahood, this happens when one transitions from being a tenth stage bodhisattva to buddhahood. A buddha is a totally realized person. There is no other kind of totally or fully realized person.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:51 pm
LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:12 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:02 pm

Hence my comment about your lack of understanding of Mahayana.
You can be generous and share how’s it done.
Knowledge is not a hindrance. Ignorance is.

First, one generates bodhicitta, the desire to liberate all sentient beings from samsara. This has two aspects, ultimate and relative. The relative aspect refers to the aspiration, and then practicing the six perfections. Ultimate bodhicitta means practicing śamatha and vipaśyanā.

One practices these two bodhicitta together, until one realizes emptiness. This is the first bodhisattva bhumi. One continues to practice, until the practice of vipaśyanā has eradicated all traces of affliction (desire, hatred, and ignorance). This happens conventionally, at the seventh bhumi. Ultimately, has eradicated all traces of grasping to personal and phenomena identity, and one attains the omniscience of buddhahood, this happens when one transitions from being a tenth stage bodhisattva to buddhahood. A buddha is a totally realized person. There is no other kind of totally or fully realized person.
Here's something that perplexes me. I am having a hard time seeing the the value in understanding the path after achieving the first bhumi. It's probably a sure bet I wont reach that in this lifetime, so why do I need to know what a boddhisattva practices at the seventh bhumi?
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Hazel wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:55 pm
Here's something that perplexes me. I am having a hard time seeing the the value in understanding the path after achieving the first bhumi. It's probably a sure bet I wont reach that in this lifetime, so why do I need to know what a boddhisattva practices at the seventh bhumi?
Because it is necessary to understand what kinds of experiences one will have on the path, even if one has not reached this or that stage.

For this reason, the paths and stages are described in detail, especially in Vajrayāna, where the goal is to attain buddhahood in a single lifetime to benefit sentient beings.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:16 pm
Hazel wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:55 pm
Here's something that perplexes me. I am having a hard time seeing the the value in understanding the path after achieving the first bhumi. It's probably a sure bet I wont reach that in this lifetime, so why do I need to know what a boddhisattva practices at the seventh bhumi?
Because it is necessary to understand what kinds of experiences one will have on the path, even if one has not reached this or that stage.

For this reason, the paths and stages are described in detail, especially in Vajrayāna, where the goal is to attain buddhahood in a single lifetime to benefit sentient beings.
The latter part about Vajrayana is fair, but since we're in a Mahayana subforum, I'd like to press you on the first part if you're willing to entertain my fancy. Why is it necessary to understand what kinds of experiences one will have on the path, even fi one has not reached a particular stage? I'm unlikely to argue about it, I'm just curious as my lack of understanding has meant I zone-out to those teachings, which can't be good.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by LastLegend »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:51 pm
LastLegend wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:12 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:02 pm

Hence my comment about your lack of understanding of Mahayana.
You can be generous and share how’s it done.
Knowledge is not a hindrance. Ignorance is.

First, one generates bodhicitta, the desire to liberate all sentient beings from samsara. This has two aspects, ultimate and relative. The relative aspect refers to the aspiration, and then practicing the six perfections. Ultimate bodhicitta means practicing śamatha and vipaśyanā.

One practices these two bodhicitta together, until one realizes emptiness. This is the first bodhisattva bhumi. One continues to practice, until the practice of vipaśyanā has eradicated all traces of affliction (desire, hatred, and ignorance). This happens conventionally, at the seventh bhumi. Ultimately, has eradicated all traces of grasping to personal and phenomena identity, and one attains the omniscience of buddhahood, this happens when one transitions from being a tenth stage bodhisattva to buddhahood. A buddha is a totally realized person. There is no other kind of totally or fully realized person.

Okay. So if we end traces of afflictions and left with pure consciousness, will there be arising thoughts such as they will be snatched by karma? It’s still unclear what these causes or traces are. Are they not an illusion to be ended? If nothing arises, how can there be something to end?

Eradicated traces of grasping to personal and phenomena...how? sure there is a link between personal grasping to Nirvana otherwise who is experiencing Nirvana?
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Hazel wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:21 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:16 pm
Hazel wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:55 pm
Here's something that perplexes me. I am having a hard time seeing the the value in understanding the path after achieving the first bhumi. It's probably a sure bet I wont reach that in this lifetime, so why do I need to know what a boddhisattva practices at the seventh bhumi?
Because it is necessary to understand what kinds of experiences one will have on the path, even if one has not reached this or that stage.

For this reason, the paths and stages are described in detail, especially in Vajrayāna, where the goal is to attain buddhahood in a single lifetime to benefit sentient beings.
The latter part about Vajrayana is fair, but since we're in a Mahayana subforum, I'd like to press you on the first part if you're willing to entertain my fancy. Why is it necessary to understand what kinds of experiences one will have on the path, even fi one has not reached a particular stage? I'm unlikely to argue about it, I'm just curious as my lack of understanding has meant I zone-out to those teachings, which can't be good.
Vajrayāna is a subdivision of Mahāyāna, not something separate.

It is necessary, because it is a vital part of the our path. If we do not understand these paths and stages, we will not know how to practice them. Zoning out in teachings is not necessarily a bad thing, more often than not it is a sign that we are eliminating traces of ignorance.

We do not want to be like horses with blinders on, only seeing what is directly in front of us on the road. This is not a good way to hear and reflect on teh Dharma. Moreover, by hearing of the experiences of the paths and stages, it can cause us to be inspired about the possibility of our attaining them and cause rejoicing in those who have attained them.
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