Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:00 pm
Queequeg wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:58 pm
Buddha or Dharma?
Awakening.
Yes - that thing the Buddha testified to.

Shall we go on like this?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:17 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:00 pm
Queequeg wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:58 pm
Buddha or Dharma?
Awakening.
Yes - that thing the Buddha testified to.

Shall we go on like this?
Yes, he testified, but no one actually heard him at the time. Even so, no one ought to just take the Buddha's word for it. This is why personal testimonial is not convincing. Seeing for oneself however, is certainty. The old goldsmith test, you gotta bite down on the coin.
"Conceptuality is great ignorance,
causing one to fall into the ocean of samsāra."
—Māyājālamahātantra
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by LastLegend »

Queequeg wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:43 pm The Lotus is a key log. Perhaps not the key log.

I find it compelling. It declares that everything the Buddha teaches is upaya. Everything. Including the story of the Buddha's life. Including stories about other buddhas and bodhisattvas and beings in far off lands. It is the ultimate cure against religious attachment professed in the language of religious attachment. Something that ought to be approached with religious awe that will free you of religious imprisonment. Its the Wizard of Oz's confession. "You, Cowardly Lion, have Buddhanature, too! Always have! Buddhanature is connate since time without beginning! But you are demoralized and can't accept this, so I tell you stories and contrive circumstances to save you from your misguided activities and to build up your confidence. Now that you are built up and strong through your dedicated Dharma practice, it is time to tell you the truth about how wonderful you are, as you are. You will be a buddha!"

Svaha! Its the joyful good news! That's all. And if someone doesn't get that, they don't appreciate how wonderful buddhanature is and they probably need to keep slogging on with their austerities on the cushion and elsewhere. So says the Buddha in the Lotus teaching. Let it be. Either on the bus or not. That's all.
Nicely written.

Sutras are difficult to understand but they are road map. There is a saying in East Asian Buddhism, “becoming Buddha is Lotus Sutra.” The profound meaning is yet to be discovered.
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?

Post by tkp67 »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:10 pm
tkp67 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:25 am
Malcolm wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:43 pm

I regard as false any claim that the Lotus is the end-all-be-all teaching of the Buddha, that it represents the final word on the Buddha's teaching in his career as a nirmāṇakāya 2500+- years ago.
Yet your comparison is based on a juxtapose comparison of form not an evaluation based on how it was taught to be interpreted by the patriarchs of the EA lineage. I think it is fair to say the evaluation of Tibetan tantra practice by merely reading some tantra they find on their own would fall flat as well.
Correct. I am not evaluating this text based on how it was received and understood in China by the Tientai school. I am evaluating this text based on how it is cited and understood in India.

In general, based on the sheer number of Indian commentaries for it, the Perfection of Wisdom group of sutras is by far the most important group of sutras in India. Not only are there more commentaries on them, but the Perfection of Wisdom sutras are by far the largest group.

Further, you will find it said in the tantras that the only effective practice in this day and age is Vajrayana practice.

So, as usual, it all depends on who you are inclined to believe.
My dear friend I purposely strive not to doubt any of them (inclusive of QQ's declaration that everything is Upaya). Do not think my stance is obstinate as popularized in the Nichiren perspective.

One thing I have done since my youth was attempt to understand that the object of belief (or devotion). Among many world views and belief systems I noticed that it wasn't necessarily the object held but how it was used that made palpable benefits (or detriments) to one's life.

One thing I noticed is that people who did not question their own beliefs (i.e. they possessed a great confidence in their own mind) had some tangible benefit. It did not necessarily scale according to humanities needs but it certainly served the person well enough. So I have never judged how a person applies a view based on the popularized meaning of that view but rather how they apply as they navigate life.

To this end I don't doubt all paths (eventually) lead to the <insert the descriptive that defines buddhahood>. Are they equal? I simply see them as relative and relevant. They are simply provision (which are not a separable aspect of life).

When the LS says all Buddha achieve Buddhahood through it this could mean from the perspective of Shakyamuni's enlightenment. There is a variety of potential interpretations. One that could be valid throughout all traditions and practices that can be traced to his existence in India is that the sutras represent Shakyamuni's realization of these Buddhas. I am not implying his realization created them or even liberated them (although I cannot claim to know well enough to deny it) but rather the narrative in that part of the sutra (the deceleration all Buddha are enlightened by this sutra) means in his own mind they were realized. This could mean that on an individual basis Buddhahood is both a potential as well as the realization of the buddhahood of others(latent and manifest). This seems to be critical in describing the internal aspect of his own enlightenment or in other words the view from here. Ergo Nichiren's references to Eagle's peak. This is not to limit the benefit or purpose of this sutra to just elimination of doubt.

I do believe ultimately it represents the true aspect of Shakyamuni's enlightenment while the others do the same but from provisional perspectives and portions, they aren't separate of one another.
Last edited by tkp67 on Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?

Post by Malcolm »

tkp67 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:32 pm
When the LS says all Buddha achieve Buddhahood through it this could mean from the perspective of Shakyamuni's enlightenment.
The text does not say this.
"Conceptuality is great ignorance,
causing one to fall into the ocean of samsāra."
—Māyājālamahātantra
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Queequeg »

LastLegend wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:51 am
Queequeg wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:43 pm The Lotus is a key log. Perhaps not the key log.

I find it compelling. It declares that everything the Buddha teaches is upaya. Everything. Including the story of the Buddha's life. Including stories about other buddhas and bodhisattvas and beings in far off lands. It is the ultimate cure against religious attachment professed in the language of religious attachment. Something that ought to be approached with religious awe that will free you of religious imprisonment. Its the Wizard of Oz's confession. "You, Cowardly Lion, have Buddhanature, too! Always have! Buddhanature is connate since time without beginning! But you are demoralized and can't accept this, so I tell you stories and contrive circumstances to save you from your misguided activities and to build up your confidence. Now that you are built up and strong through your dedicated Dharma practice, it is time to tell you the truth about how wonderful you are, as you are. You will be a buddha!"

Svaha! Its the joyful good news! That's all. And if someone doesn't get that, they don't appreciate how wonderful buddhanature is and they probably need to keep slogging on with their austerities on the cushion and elsewhere. So says the Buddha in the Lotus teaching. Let it be. Either on the bus or not. That's all.
“becoming Buddha is Lotus Sutra.” The profound meaning is yet to be discovered.
I like that. :smile:
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:50 pm Yes, he testified, but no one actually heard him at the time. Even so, no one ought to just take the Buddha's word for it. This is why personal testimonial is not convincing. Seeing for oneself however, is certainty. The old goldsmith test, you gotta bite down on the coin.
He testified repeatedly. When he met the five ascetics at the Deer Park he told them he was awakened and that he could teach them. And then regularly after that. If the stories in the Tripitaka are to be relied upon.

It goes without saying that one must walk the path themselves.

Maybe some people will pick up a book off the library shelf and follow the directions without a person assuring them it will work. I tried some Necronomicon when I was a kid even though I didn't know anyone who actually said it worked. But that's rare. More or less a goof. And increasingly unlikely as the instructions become more elaborate and difficult. Most of us, before considering going into, say, a multi year course of practice, or sign up for a lifetime of this, need a little more assurance, ideally from a person we meet in the flesh.

We follow these instruction manuals because someone we attribute authority to say they work. Of course the ultimate test is whether there is actual proof in one's own experience. Saying Buddhism is exclusively this (awakening) or that (testimony), or depends on the primacy of this (Buddha) or that (Dharma), is a dead end sooner or later. Because other than awakening itself, its all conceptual, but without the concepts framing awakening, there's no awakening. Strange how that is. Its like the impossibility of escaping the fact that a triangle has three sides and three corners.

Bringing this back to the Lotus - one of the failures the text implicitly points out is when some teaching is followed to the exclusion of all else, saying, "This is True, everything else is false."

That text was probably composed in an environment where the Mahayana was emerging and was being called heresy by the Elders while the Mahayanists were calling the Elders stodgy old farts. The text gives several indications of its secrecy.

I think the approach of the composers was that rather than get into the dispute, they counseled taking a bigger view, put the various positions into context and see how they are well made medicines for specific ailments, even if they are not ultimate cures for everything. I think when taken to its broadest application, it tends to a perennial view, embracing all life, including non-Buddhist teachings, as aspects of the path. In that sense, I think it is an outward looking approach.

I don't think this outward looking approach is somehow inferior or superior to the Buddhist teachings that deal with the minutiae of interior practice. I think it can be a salve to the myopic posture that heavily interior practice can tend to.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Minobu »

Queequeg wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:43 pm The Lotus is a key log. Perhaps not the key log.

I find it compelling. It declares that everything the Buddha teaches is upaya. Everything. Including the story of the Buddha's life. Including stories about other buddhas and bodhisattvas and beings in far off lands. It is the ultimate cure against religious attachment professed in the language of religious attachment. Something that ought to be approached with religious awe that will free you of religious imprisonment. Its the Wizard of Oz's confession. "You, Cowardly Lion, have Buddhanature, too! Always have! Buddhanature is connate since time without beginning! But you are demoralized and can't accept this, so I tell you stories and contrive circumstances to save you from your misguided activities and to build up your confidence. Now that you are built up and strong through your dedicated Dharma practice, it is time to tell you the truth about how wonderful you are, as you are. You will be a buddha!"

Svaha! Its the joyful good news! That's all. And if someone doesn't get that, they don't appreciate how wonderful buddhanature is and they probably need to keep slogging on with their austerities on the cushion and elsewhere. So says the Buddha in the Lotus teaching. Let it be. Either on the bus or not. That's all.
I think of the Lotus sutra as a thing unto itself.

It's something that journeyed over time and geography.

It ended up in the hands of Masters who if you were able to travel back in time and meet up with them, that would not shock them as much as what you just posted.
that being said i understand what you said.
When malcolm called sutras stories...it annoyed a part of me..but there was a part of me years ago that gave up on all this due to the fact they are just stories.....the whole He preached this for the last eight years of life is , well some would say never occured and Yet !! I think past masters believed it so...

i recall some Gosho where Nichiren talked about a Vajra being tossed across the sea and landing in Japan...it was a given at the time , but i believe he challenged that..or did he...my memory does serve anything other than he said basically it was a hoax...maybe he did not say that...but it shapes my thoughts now...

The Lotus sutra is a gateway for me to be in the presence of Buddhas and gods and Bodhisattvas...
Yesterday i realized it is all here in this
[Asanga explains:] As such, the three examples of the buddha statue, honey, and the heart, from the perspective of the meaning of the dharmakāya of the tathāgata pervading all sentient beings, these sentient beings are called "possessors of the essence of the tathāgata." That sentient being who exists outside the dharmakāya of the tathāgatas does not exist in the realm of sentient beings at all.
That is where you actually are in the presence of all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and the Lotus sutra

I posted something that no one teaches....
here:
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=36527

I think the lotus has become something different through out time..

The ole Gakki days in the early seventies , no longer happens...those miracles everywhere in each and every district are long gone...they served their purpose and it's all over...

Rinpoche gave lectures and you were not allowed to ask questions till it was over...Once he was going on about this and that and talked about this guy who misunderstood the whole channel thing...there is a channel that runs from the base of your spine and ends up just above the bridge of your nose...but this guy thought it curved and ended up above your ear...so as Rinpoche was continuing to talk i could not contain myself and raised my had..he nodded and i asked "Did it work!" He said did what work....the guy with the channel coming out the top of his ear...."Yes it worked" ...


so yeah you see the lotus in this way Q and i dig it...it's good to be said as well..

and yeah they are all stories...

one thing though...
they don't appreciate how wonderful buddhanature is and they probably need to keep slogging on with their austerities on the cushion and elsewhere.
careful what you say....recall

"If you tighten the string too tight it breaks , if you leave it too slack you get no sound"

slog on !
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by LastLegend »

Lotus Sutra says the path to Buddhahood is one has to conduct Bodhisattva work otherwise it’s considered personal salvation and self illumination.

“These people – both those in the stage of learning, and those beyond the stage of learning – thought that being detached from self-centered views and from dualistic views of existence and nonexistence meant achieving nirvana. Now here, in the presence of the World Honored One, they have heard what they never heard before, and all of them have fallen into doubt and confusion.
“How splendid it would be, O World Honored One, if you were to explain to the assembly the reasons [for what you have taught us today] and enable them to leave behind their doubts.”
The Buddha said to Shariputra: “Did I not say earlier that the enlightened ones explain the Teaching using all sorts of causes and conditions, metaphors and explanations, all sorts of terminology, all sorts of expedient means, all for the sake of ultimate perfect enlightenment? This is because all the explanations the enlightened ones give are to teach people how to be bodhisattvas.
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Queequeg »

Minobu wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:43 pm I think the lotus has become something different through out time..
Its a rorschach. It employs certain literary devices that draw the reader/listener in. Whoever you are, as you are, you are on the path to Buddhahood! Its kind of magical, isn't it?
The ole Gakki days in the early seventies , no longer happens...those miracles everywhere in each and every district are long gone...they served their purpose and it's all over...
Takes a certain critical mass. IME, when beings drop the barriers, all kinds of weird and wonderful things start happening. The Merry Pranksters called those moments, "leaving the planet". The Lotus talks about a flying stupa surrounded by clouds of beings floating in the air. LOL
"Yes it worked" ...
mumbling "Coca Cola" could work with the right intention framed by the right stories.
they don't appreciate how wonderful buddhanature is and they probably need to keep slogging on with their austerities on the cushion and elsewhere.
careful what you say....recall

"If you tighten the string too tight it breaks , if you leave it too slack you get no sound"

slog on !
That is true. Though the Lotus also starts with 5000 people who get up and leave when the Buddha says he is going to teach the Lotus. They probably could have done with a little less triumphalism in the text, but I think that's part of the upaya of the text - it was directed at a persecuted minority who probably needed a morale boost.

For me, there is nothing to do but slog. The slogging is how I express my appreciation. Frames the same slogging in a different way.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Queequeg »

LastLegend wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:56 pm Lotus Sutra says the path to Buddhahood is one has to conduct Bodhisattva work otherwise it’s considered personal salvation and self illumination.

“These people – both those in the stage of learning, and those beyond the stage of learning – thought that being detached from self-centered views and from dualistic views of existence and nonexistence meant achieving nirvana. Now here, in the presence of the World Honored One, they have heard what they never heard before, and all of them have fallen into doubt and confusion.
“How splendid it would be, O World Honored One, if you were to explain to the assembly the reasons [for what you have taught us today] and enable them to leave behind their doubts.”
The Buddha said to Shariputra: “Did I not say earlier that the enlightened ones explain the Teaching using all sorts of causes and conditions, metaphors and explanations, all sorts of terminology, all sorts of expedient means, all for the sake of ultimate perfect enlightenment? This is because all the explanations the enlightened ones give are to teach people how to be bodhisattvas.
That's a good point.

In one sense, the Lotus points out the Ekayana. But the Ekayana is not really all that different than the Mahayana. Its the Mahayana framed in a maximally expansive, embracing way. Later in the text, its Maitreya at the head of the bodhisattvas who is perplexed by the Buddha's statements and seeks clarification. The Buddha then expounds on his life span.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Upaya Chapter

純一実相。実相外。更無別法。法性寂然名止。寂而常渉照名観。
There is only reality; there is nothing separate from reality. The naturally tranquil nature of dharmas is shamatha. The abiding luminosity of tranquility is vipashyana.

-From Guanding's Introduction to Zhiyi's Great Shamatha and Vipashyana
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by LastLegend »

The Journey is difficult and a lot of obstacles even for the ones who have truly realized emptiness. There is a resting place called Nirvana. For those who have truly realized emptiness, they will know how to use The Treasure Tower (in Lotus Sutra). Though the Journey is arduous and difficult and many fall back, Buddhas sponsor this Journey (mentions in Lotus Sutra). They receive guide from Buddhas.
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:10 pm

We follow these instruction manuals because someone we attribute authority to say they work. Of course the ultimate test is whether there is actual proof in one's own experience. Saying Buddhism is exclusively this (awakening) or that (testimony), or depends on the primacy of this (Buddha) or that (Dharma), is a dead end sooner or later.
As you know, I draw a sharp distinction between Buddhism (concepts) and Buddhadharma (realization through personal experience). But in any case, the Uttaratantra is pretty clear on this point. The Buddha is the ultimate refuge because the Buddha possesses the dharmakāya; and in that same text the dharmakāya is defined as the realization of the dharmadhātu, further defined as the clear light or luminous nature of the mind, the realization that is the basis upon which the Buddha then teaches the dharma.
Because other than awakening itself, its all conceptual, but without the concepts framing awakening, there's no awakening. Strange how that is. Its like the impossibility of escaping the fact that a triangle has three sides and three corners.
Awakening is beyond thought and concepts. It can't truly be framed in concepts. Trying to frame awakening in concepts is like trying frame the taste of sugar in concepts to someone who has never tasted anything sweet. But if you have some sugar, you can easily say "Come and see what it tastes like yourself."
Bringing this back to the Lotus - one of the failures the text implicitly points out is when some teaching is followed to the exclusion of all else, saying, "This is True, everything else is false."
That is referring to polemical assertions; not the experience of awakening itself.

As for the Lotus itself, of course the Lotus presents the proper and correct explanation of the reality that is to be realized. But it is a very short passage in the text, and I never see it quoted in these discussions at all.
"Conceptuality is great ignorance,
causing one to fall into the ocean of samsāra."
—Māyājālamahātantra
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by LastLegend »

Queequeg wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:20 pm
LastLegend wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:56 pm Lotus Sutra says the path to Buddhahood is one has to conduct Bodhisattva work otherwise it’s considered personal salvation and self illumination.

“These people – both those in the stage of learning, and those beyond the stage of learning – thought that being detached from self-centered views and from dualistic views of existence and nonexistence meant achieving nirvana. Now here, in the presence of the World Honored One, they have heard what they never heard before, and all of them have fallen into doubt and confusion.
“How splendid it would be, O World Honored One, if you were to explain to the assembly the reasons [for what you have taught us today] and enable them to leave behind their doubts.”
The Buddha said to Shariputra: “Did I not say earlier that the enlightened ones explain the Teaching using all sorts of causes and conditions, metaphors and explanations, all sorts of terminology, all sorts of expedient means, all for the sake of ultimate perfect enlightenment? This is because all the explanations the enlightened ones give are to teach people how to be bodhisattvas.
That's a good point.

In one sense, the Lotus points out the Ekayana. But the Ekayana is not really all that different than the Mahayana. Its the Mahayana framed in a maximally expansive, embracing way. Later in the text, its Maitreya at the head of the bodhisattvas who is perplexed by the Buddha's statements and seeks clarification. The Buddha then expounds on his life span.
Buddhas know minds of sentient beings (specifically us) that we basically can’t deal with difficult Journey and often fall back. He says this is the only way to become a Full Buddha. Even for those achieving emptiness it’s not final.
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:20 pm In one sense, the Lotus points out the Ekayana. But the Ekayana is not really all that different than the Mahayana. Its the Mahayana framed in a maximally expansive, embracing way. Later in the text, its Maitreya at the head of the bodhisattvas who is perplexed by the Buddha's statements and seeks clarification. The Buddha then expounds on his life span.
What the Lotus is critiquing is the notion of three gotras: śrāvaka arhats; pratyekabuddhas, and buddhas.

Of course, also the Lanka has the same critique.

The Abhisamayalaṃkāra distinguishes the these three on the basis of what kind of all-knowledge each of the three possesses, because they are different. The reason it does so is that on the path, the bodhisattva must possess and surpass the all-knowledge of śrāvaka arhats and pratyekabuddhas, which they do by the tenth bhumi.
"Conceptuality is great ignorance,
causing one to fall into the ocean of samsāra."
—Māyājālamahātantra
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by LastLegend »

Not to offend anyone further...everyone here experiences fall back (a thinking or thoughts of such manner)....at the beginning of the Sutra different minds of sentient beings were revealed.
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Minobu »

So like i finally actually know now that we do indeed have the Tathagatagarbha ..it's part of being sentient...
so like just like i cut myself and these weird blood clots are produced and run to that area...or like i get some viral infection and my body produces antibodies and i survive and there is this memory in the bone marrow for the next time...

This Tathagatagarbha produces all these different teaches ...some of them go whooshing over your head...others make you recoil...but they both are coming from the same source...

it'sa beautiful...mia amore !

i'm freaking high on this stuff...
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Malcolm »

Minobu wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:45 pm So like i finally actually know now that we do indeed have the Tathagatagarbha ..it's part of being sentient...
so like just like i cut myself and these weird blood clots are produced and run to that area...or like i get some viral infection and my body produces antibodies and i survive and there is this memory in the bone marrow for the next time...

This Tathagatagarbha produces all these different teaches ...some of them go whooshing over your head...others make you recoil...but they both are coming from the same source...

it'sa beautiful...mia amore !

i'm freaking high on this stuff...
Tathāgatagarbha is luminosity.
"Conceptuality is great ignorance,
causing one to fall into the ocean of samsāra."
—Māyājālamahātantra
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LastLegend
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by LastLegend »

Minobu wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:45 pm So like i finally actually know now that we do indeed have the Tathagatagarbha ..it's part of being sentient...
so like just like i cut myself and these weird blood clots are produced and run to that area...or like i get some viral infection and my body produces antibodies and i survive and there is this memory in the bone marrow for the next time...

This Tathagatagarbha produces all these different teaches ...some of them go whooshing over your head...others make you recoil...but they both are coming from the same source...

it'sa beautiful...mia amore !

i'm freaking high on this stuff...
Something like that not sure the exact detail. Or how it works really.
It’s eye blinking.
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Minobu
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Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Post by Minobu »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:49 pm
Minobu wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:45 pm So like i finally actually know now that we do indeed have the Tathagatagarbha ..it's part of being sentient...
so like just like i cut myself and these weird blood clots are produced and run to that area...or like i get some viral infection and my body produces antibodies and i survive and there is this memory in the bone marrow for the next time...

This Tathagatagarbha produces all these different teaches ...some of them go whooshing over your head...others make you recoil...but they both are coming from the same source...

it'sa beautiful...mia amore !

i'm freaking high on this stuff...
Tathāgatagarbha is luminosity.
yeah i know that now...thats why i'm like so high...not on luminosity but because i was wrong...
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