Re: buddhas achieve enlightenment through LS (Was "Which has primacy, Buddha or Dharma"?)

Minobu · Post by **Minobu** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:30 pm

in other words...Nichiren did not throw out the baby with the bath water...

Post by **narhwal90** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:32 pm

Minobu, Nichiren highly valued the 3000 Worlds theory- mediation on it is one of the few contemplative forms he explicity lists as appropriate practice. He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself. It is mentioned in a number of goshos, and a quick google search showed one dedicated entirely to explaining the 3000 Worlds and why he sees it as so important.

Minobu · Post by **Minobu** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:13 pm

narhwal90 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:32 pm Minobu, Nichiren highly valued the 3000 Worlds theory- mediation on it is one of the few contemplative forms he explicity lists as appropriate practice. He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself. It is mentioned in a number of goshos, and a quick google search showed one dedicated entirely to explaining the 3000 Worlds and why he sees it as so important.

He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself

I don't actually expect you to grasp at all what I am Implying about the whole thing...

why He had to use what was the going concern...

it's like physics...today the concept of hard science molecules being the building blocks of everything is out the window ...to hold unto an once accepted view is ludicrous...

Maybe...Maybe Nichiren Daishonin is The True Buddha of Kuon Ganjo ...and one needs to see that He was working with fables...

and one has to...
how can i say it ? work with the likes of

He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself/quote]

Minobu · Post by **Minobu** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:15 pm

He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself. I

It's a childish theory...has merit...produces compassion and yearning for something higher...but to actually say it is the building blocks of reality...lol...

Shotenzenjin · Post by **Shotenzenjin** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:20 pm

Minobu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:15 pm
He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself. I

It's a childish theory...has merit...produces compassion and yearning for something higher...but to actually say it is the building blocks of reality...lol...

In what way is it childish?

Post by **narhwal90** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:22 pm

Dude, I'm not making this stuff up- there is literally a gosho written by Nichiren entitled "The Doctrine of Three Thousand Realms in a Single Moment of Life" where he discusses the theory and why its important.

Also, "On the 10 Factors"- again, written by Nichiren, discussing how the number is formulated and why its important.

Javierfv1212 · Post by **Javierfv1212** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:38 pm

Shotenzenjin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:20 pm
Minobu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:15 pm
He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself. I

It's a childish theory...has merit...produces compassion and yearning for something higher...but to actually say it is the building blocks of reality...lol...
In what way is it childish?

Maybe because he's reading into the Lotus what is not there and then goes around claiming other people are going to hell if they don't accept his view?

I mean, that's pretty childish if you ask me.

Minobu · Post by **Minobu** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 pm

narhwal90 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:22 pm Dude, I'm not making this stuff up- there is literally a gosho written by Nichiren entitled "The Doctrine of Three Thousand Realms in a Single Moment of Life" where he discusses the theory and why its important.

Also, "On the 10 Factors"- again, written by Nichiren, discussing how the number is formulated and why its important.

yeah i know...doesn't mean it's the end all and be all..

the whole thing is based on man made story..it's all he had to work with ..

i see value in the concept...but to make a religion out of it based on

He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself. I

Nichiren had all these officials and High Priests and what ever to deal with...

they actually believed these were the actual words of a historic living human being who ended up being Buddha...

I don't think Nichiren did ...If He is truly a Buddha coming to fix the mess Buddhism ended up in....

whats He going to use...non Buddhist stuff..

seriously...just try for a moment to think what i've written this fine morning is absolutely correct...do it as a practice ..of thought...

and tell me it isn't possible...

if anything this thread has taught us anything at all...

we can watch people debate something they say is a story ...lean on UPAYA...and like use the good houseing keeping seal of approval by saying it is Buddha's words...

i mean

recall Q saying something along the lines that Nichiren took something ( QQ would recal his exact words) and took all these broken pieces of weirdness and created a millenium falcon that flies..

So you are arguing that a fable is something that needs to be gospel ...cause Nichiren used it in that way...

But He came up with something...that is never explained by Him and left to what...

If He is the Buddha , and those that chant the sound...are His disciples...they get taught...what the real deal is...

it's in this thread...it's all UPAYA at best...but whose Upaya?

LOL

LastLegend · Post by **LastLegend** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:50 pm

If The Buddha had to tell us like it is, we don’t value it. So now we have to work for it.

The Spuda and the act of unlocking it and adorn Buddha land will turn people away.

Minobu · Post by **Minobu** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:51 pm

Javierfv1212 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:38 pm

Maybe because he's reading into the Lotus what is not there and then goes around claiming other people are going to hell if they don't accept his view?

I mean, that's pretty childish if you ask me.

uh did i say this...

you are using what you think people do in Nichiren sects...and saying i said this..

it's childish cause it's a simplistic view of ten worlds...it is all metaphor to describe psychology of the sentient being..

based on this

He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself.

then adds in a mathematical variant in order to come to some 3000- moments in a moment...

actually i can see a pseudo quantum thing in it ...but it still is like this childish formula ...

Minobu · Post by **Minobu** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:53 pm

LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:50 pm

If The Buddha had to tell us like it is, we don’t value it. So now we have to work for it.

The Spuda and the act of unlocking it and adorn Buddha land will turn people away.

but we don't have a Buddha to tell us anything...it's all fable...
Except maybe in Nichiren Daishonin...He had everyone look behind the carnival curtain...

LastLegend · Post by **LastLegend** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:56 pm

We all have doubt.

Minobu · Post by **Minobu** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:02 pm

LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:56 pm We all have doubt.

I think that some very advanced people left us practices to develop ourselves.

but the whole boogy man stuff is now out of the toothpaste tube...

the magic of it all is ...well ...gone...

lean on upaya...feel safe...

since the african tribes we have been making sounds for some reason or other...we do ritual...it helps...

we focus on characters ..or a single letter...to bring us to something spiritual...

it's just weird that the very people that say it's a story argue what part of the story is valid and why the other view of the story is not valid...

lol..lots and lots of effort put into stories...

LastLegend · Post by **LastLegend** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:07 pm

The story in the Sutra is not a work of fiction. But within the story, there is much wisdom and instruction for practice. For example, some commentaries from Vietnamese Buddhism say emanations of Buddha are our thoughts, and Shakyumuni Buddha gathered all his emanations in order to unlock stupa. That seems like instruction for practice. In the Stupa, Mani Jewel Buddha is displayed in meditative concentration.

Post by **narhwal90** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:10 pm

Minobu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 pm
narhwal90 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:22 pm Dude, I'm not making this stuff up- there is literally a gosho written by Nichiren entitled "The Doctrine of Three Thousand Realms in a Single Moment of Life" where he discusses the theory and why its important.

Also, "On the 10 Factors"- again, written by Nichiren, discussing how the number is formulated and why its important.
yeah i know...doesn't mean it's the end all and be all..

the whole thing is based on man made story..it's all he had to work with ..

i see value in the concept...but to make a religion out of it based on

He even mentions it is the hidden message of the Lotus Sutra itself. I
Nichiren had all these officials and High Priests and what ever to deal with...

they actually believed these were the actual words of a historic living human being who ended up being Buddha...

I don't think Nichiren did ...If He is truly a Buddha coming to fix the mess Buddhism ended up in....

whats He going to use...non Buddhist stuff..

seriously...just try for a moment to think what i've written this fine morning is absolutely correct...do it as a practice ..of thought...

and tell me it isn't possible...

if anything this thread has taught us anything at all...

we can watch people debate something they say is a story ...lean on UPAYA...and like use the good houseing keeping seal of approval by saying it is Buddha's words...

i mean

recall Q saying something along the lines that Nichiren took something ( QQ would recal his exact words) and took all these broken pieces of weirdness and created a millenium falcon that flies..

So you are arguing that a fable is something that needs to be gospel ...cause Nichiren used it in that way...

But He came up with something...that is never explained by Him and left to what...

If He is the Buddha , and those that chant the sound...are His disciples...they get taught...what the real deal is...

it's in this thread...it's all UPAYA at best...but whose Upaya?

LOL

Well if you're going to invent your own ideas about what Nichiren meant, despite what his letters actually say, I'll leave you to it....

GDPR_Anonymized001 · Post by **GDPR_Anonymized001** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:12 pm

This is still a Buddhist discussion forum, correct? Specifically the Mahayana sub-forum? Why are these "it's all made up and it is childish" posts permitted?

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:12 pm

LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:07 pm The story in the Sutra is not a work of fiction.

One person's gospel is another person's fiction.

Minobu · Post by **Minobu** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:16 pm

jake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:12 pm This is still a Buddhist discussion forum, correct? Specifically the Mahayana sub-forum? Why are these "it's all made up and it is childish" posts permitted?

because , have you read what Malcolm has to say about it all being stories...

sorry if it offends you...like Santa isn't really married to the tooth fairy either.

Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:12 pm
LastLegend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:07 pm The story in the Sutra is not a work of fiction.
One person's gospel is another person's fiction.

Minobu · Post by **Minobu** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:18 pm

jake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:12 pm This is still a Buddhist discussion forum, correct? Specifically the Mahayana sub-forum? Why are these "it's all made up and it is childish" posts permitted?

So like i do apologize for saying it's a sci fi as well..

christians used to burn people alive for heresy..

you want any discussion that might offend you abolished...

and you are seeking enlightenment?

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:22 pm

jake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:12 pm This is still a Buddhist discussion forum, correct? Specifically the Mahayana sub-forum? Why are these "it's all made up and it is childish" posts permitted?

Because we permit people to express their opinions freely, within reason?