Buddhist marriages

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mabw
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Buddhist marriages

Post by mabw »

Hi,

Is anyone aware of the earliest Buddhist marriage recorded? What were the rituals like, especially in India? Were marriages in Buddhist countries mainly a secular matter informed by cultural traditions or something which had Buddhist elements thrown in? As far as I am aware, monastics were not called to bless a couple until fairly modern times.

Thank you in advance.
Bristollad
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Bristollad »

At least in the Mulasarvastivadin Vinaya (and I think probably in the other Vinaya traditions too), one of the monastic rules is NOT to officiate in marriage ceremonies.

Due to this, I would be surprised if there are early examples (i.e. before the 19th-20th centuries). The situation may have been different in Japan since Buddhist monastics there don't follow the Vinaya I believe.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
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Dhammanando
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Dhammanando »

Bristollad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:29 am At least in the Mulasarvastivadin Vinaya (and I think probably in the other Vinaya traditions too), one of the monastic rules is NOT to officiate in marriage ceremonies.
Would this be one of the ramifications of the fifth saṃghāvaśeṣa rule (the prohibition against acting as a go-between) or is it independent of this?
Bristollad
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Bristollad »

Dhammanando wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:07 pm
Bristollad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:29 am At least in the Mulasarvastivadin Vinaya (and I think probably in the other Vinaya traditions too), one of the monastic rules is NOT to officiate in marriage ceremonies.
Would this be one of the ramifications of the fifth saṃghāvaśeṣa rule (the prohibition against acting as a go-between) or is it independent of this?
Yes, it's one of the ramifications of that vow, i.e. it is a similar activity that results in a couple having sex.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
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Queequeg
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Queequeg »

Bristollad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 5:26 pm
Dhammanando wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:07 pm
Bristollad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:29 am At least in the Mulasarvastivadin Vinaya (and I think probably in the other Vinaya traditions too), one of the monastic rules is NOT to officiate in marriage ceremonies.
Would this be one of the ramifications of the fifth saṃghāvaśeṣa rule (the prohibition against acting as a go-between) or is it independent of this?
Yes, it's one of the ramifications of that vow, i.e. it is a similar activity that results in a couple having sex.
Interesting. That makes sense.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Queequeg
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Queequeg »

Bristollad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:29 am The situation may have been different in Japan since Buddhist monastics there don't follow the Vinaya I believe.
AFAIK, Buddhist weddings in Japan are a relatively recent phenomenon. My understanding is that weddings didn't become a big thing until Japanese became aware of the Western fairytale version in the Church with all the solemn ritual. To the extent that weddings were a thing, it was a Shinto matter. It wasn't until recently that Buddhist weddings became a thing.

Even now, I think Western style weddings are pretty popular, with fake church wedding halls. I don't know if this is still happening, but caucasian friends living in Japan sometimes had gigs as wedding guests, I suppose to add a touch of authenticity. :shock: Some of it is very Vegas wedding-esque. All they need is the Elvis impersonator to solemnize it.

There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Bristollad
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Bristollad »

Queequeg wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:29 pm
Bristollad wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:29 am The situation may have been different in Japan since Buddhist monastics there don't follow the Vinaya I believe.
AFAIK, Buddhist weddings in Japan are a relatively recent phenomenon. My understanding is that weddings didn't become a big thing until Japanese became aware of the Western fairytale version in the Church with all the solemn ritual. To the extent that weddings were a thing, it was a Shinto matter. It wasn't until recently that Buddhist weddings became a thing.

Even now, I think Western style weddings are pretty popular, with fake church wedding halls. I don't know if this is still happening, but caucasian friends living in Japan sometimes had gigs as wedding guests, I suppose to add a touch of authenticity. :shock: Some of it is very Vegas wedding-esque. All they need is the Elvis impersonator to solemnize it.

Yes, I think in other Buddhist countries too where "Buddhist marriage" has now become a thing, it is a response to Western Christian ideas of marriage being solemnized by a priest/vicar. And of course, some expect it of monastics in the West as a matter of course.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
mabw
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by mabw »

So in conclusion, in Buddhist households traditionally, weddings were a secular affair with no Buddhist elements?
Giovanni
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Giovanni »

There is no Buddhist marriage. Some Buddhists get married.
mabw
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by mabw »

in case of miscommunication, when I say Buddhist marriages, I simply mean a marriage between Buddhists. I am just interested in how marriages have traditionally been conducted in Buddhist lands, whether there were any Buddhist elements in them. I do not define Buddhist Marriages as those officiated by a monk. For e.g, as part of the ceremony, a dana can be performed at a local monastery and the merit be dedicated to the building of a wholesome Buddhist household. Or some simple chants in front of a Buddha rupa led by laypeople, like family elders.
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by muni »

mabw wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:58 am in case of miscommunication, when I say Buddhist marriages, I simply mean a marriage between Buddhists. I am just interested in how marriages have traditionally been conducted in Buddhist lands, whether there were any Buddhist elements in them. I do not define Buddhist Marriages as those officiated by a monk. For e.g, as part of the ceremony, a dana can be performed at a local monastery and the merit be dedicated to the building of a wholesome Buddhist household. Or some simple chants in front of a Buddha rupa led by laypeople, like family elders.
Not earliest but traditions are still there. A Kham Tibetan:



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Queequeg
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Queequeg »

mabw wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:58 am in case of miscommunication, when I say Buddhist marriages, I simply mean a marriage between Buddhists. I am just interested in how marriages have traditionally been conducted in Buddhist lands, whether there were any Buddhist elements in them. I do not define Buddhist Marriages as those officiated by a monk. For e.g, as part of the ceremony, a dana can be performed at a local monastery and the merit be dedicated to the building of a wholesome Buddhist household. Or some simple chants in front of a Buddha rupa led by laypeople, like family elders.
I think its fair to say, marriages, including those between Buddhist lay people, were traditionally conducted according to local custom, whatever they were. Buddhism doesn't really have much to say about coupling and child bearing except as those things bare on one's practice (in short, obstacles).

I think even funerals are supposed to be conducted according to secular custom - the cremation and interment of the Buddha's remains were entrusted to lay people. The process of dying, though, is encompassed within the scope of Buddhist teachings, and have expanded to include what anthropologists might label "funerary rites."
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Malcolm »

mabw wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:07 am Is anyone aware of the earliest Buddhist marriage recorded?
This is a modern idea. There are married Buddhists, but there has never been a "Buddhist" wedding ceremony until the last century.
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Aemilius
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Aemilius »

Sravasti Dhammika writes: "A type of marriage mentioned in the Jàtakas was called Svayamara wherein usually a girl but sometimes a boy chose a partner from a number of suitors. Such ceremonies would usually take place at a public gathering."

Sravasti Dhammika has an entry concerning Marriage in his Guide to Buddhism A 2 Z, https://www.buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=248
Contrary to what Bhante Dhammika says there are traditions that Siddhartha was not monogamous,

Buddha had at least two wives, and according to some sources, three; as well as many mistresses. The Lalitavistara reports he had a wife named Gopa, who was his head wife:
"Then indeed, in order to conform to worldly conventions, the Bodhisattva dwelt among 84,000 women and showed himself to partake of the amorous games with pleasure. Among the 84,000 women, the Śākya girl Gopā was consecrated as the foremost wife."

"Traditional" marriage exists in many forms: polygamy, polyandry, monogamy, and everything in between.

Just to add a bit more here, the Abhiniṣkramaṇa-sūtra states that the Buddha had three main wives, Gopa, Yaśodharā, and Mrigajā, as well as 60,000 other wives, that is to say, 20,000 wives as the retinue for the three main wives. Buddha's palace was literally crawling with wives."

Lalitavistara sutra never mentions Yasodhara. The name of the third wife, Mrigaja, is mentioned by Etienne Lamotte in a foot note of his translation of the Shuramgama-samadhi sutra.

According to Etienne Lamotte Gopa is mentioned as Shakyamuni's wife in several other Mahayana sutras besides Lalitavistara. In the Shurangama samadhi sutra she has a chapter, and she features also in the Suvarnabhasha sutra (the Sutra of Golden Light).

In the footnotes of the Shurangamasamadhi Lamotte says:
" According to the Mahayana Upadesha of Nagarjuna bodhisattva Siddhartha had two wives; first was called Gopa or Gopiya, second was called Yashodhara, first one did not give children."

"Mulasarvastivadin Vinaya attributes three wives to Him, each surrounded by 20 000 courtesans: Yashodhara, Gopa, and Mrigaja"

"Seven days before the Great Departure when the future Buddha was returning to His palace Mrigaja addressed Him with the famous stanza: Nibbuta nuna sa mala; Shakyamuni in thanks cast a necklace to the young woman,"
(T 1450, ch3. p. 114b, Rockhill op. cit. pp 23-24)

Buston's Blue Annals mentions that bodhisattva Gautama had two wives and gives their names in tibetan.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Natan
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Natan »

mabw wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 7:07 am Hi,

Is anyone aware of the earliest Buddhist marriage recorded? What were the rituals like, especially in India? Were marriages in Buddhist countries mainly a secular matter informed by cultural traditions or something which had Buddhist elements thrown in? As far as I am aware, monastics were not called to bless a couple until fairly modern times.

Thank you in advance.
In Buddhism marriage is just a contract. They will perform some blessing like "good luck."
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Budai
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Budai »

It’s not like Gautama Buddha ever unmarried His wife. He went back to see Her personally after His Enlightenment. And eventually She even joined His Sangha. They were just on monastic celibate terms.

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Aemilius
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Aemilius »

There was no formal divorce procedures in ancient India. According to the Manusmriti, a husband could expel his wife if she was barren, unfaithful and cantankerous, had a long-term illness or did not produce a son within a certain period. There does not seem to be a word in the Tipitaka for divorce, other than perhaps vikirana meaning `to break' or `to separate', which is sometimes used in reference to marriage (e.g. D.I,11). According to the Vinaya, `being told "Enough!" '(alamvacanãyà) by one's husband effectively ended a marriage (Vin.III,144).

When someone was dissatisfied with their spouse, one or the other would either depart or be expelled from the household. It was usually the wife who did this or to whom this was done. When Ugga decided that he was going to become celibate he informed his four wives that they could continue to live in the house, return to their parents or take another husband. The eldest wife apparently already has her eye on another man and asked to be given to him, which Ugga happily did. (A.IV,210). When Sangàmaji decided to become a monk he simply abandoned his house and his pregnant wife. After his wife gave birth she took the baby to Sangàmaji but he refused to acknowledge either her or the child (Ud.5-6). Isidàsã and her husband lived in his parent's house. He was unhappy with her so he left the house and resided somewhere else. Isidàsã returned to her parent's house and they subsequently married her off to another man (Thi.413-20).

from
Guide To Buddhism A to Z, Divorce
Last edited by Aemilius on Sat May 22, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Aemilius
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Re: Buddhist marriages

Post by Aemilius »

A wedding (àvàhamangala or mangalakiriyà) is a ceremony marking the marriage of two people. The first Buddhists adopted the wedding ceremony current at the time. However, wanting to distinguish their weddings from those of Brahmanism, they left out the ritual requiring the bride and groom to circumambulate the sacred fire seven times. They also had the elders of both families officiate, rather than a brahmin. Astrology was often used to determine an auspicious time for the wedding, although the early Buddhists ridicule this practice (Ja.I,258).

The preliminary to the wedding took two forms. Either the groom went to the bride's house (àvàha) or the bride was taken to the groom's house (vivàha). In both cases there was a procession and much music and dancing (A.II,61; D.I,99). The essential feature of the ceremony itself was when the father of the bride took her left hand and with a ceremonial vase or pot (bhinkàra) in his right hand poured water over the couple's hands, a ritual marking the giving away of the bride to the groom (A.III,226; IV,210; Ja.III,286). In Sanskrit literature this ceremony is called `The Giving of the Hand' (Pànipradàna). This would be followed by a blessing from the parents and elders. In the Jàtaka the Bodhisattva gives this wedding benediction: `May your friendship with your beloved wife never decay' (Ajeyyaü esà tava hotu mettã bhariyàya kaccàna piyàya saddhim, Ja.VI,323).

from
Guide To Buddhism A to Z, Wedding
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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