So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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LastLegend
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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It’s possible to have insight into ones own mind through texts but quite rare...however those who read Mahaprajnaparamita Sutras such as one above will be lead by Buddhas to have insight.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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LastLegend wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:08 am It’s possible to have insight into ones own mind through texts but quite rare...however those who read Mahaprajnaparamita Sutras such as one above will be lead by Buddhas to have insight.
Yes, one needs a teacher to point out the nature of mind, generally speaking, but that is not really what we are talking about. We are talking about the status of Dharma texts as Dharma. How one could believe that Dharma texts are not Dharma, I am not sure. Apparently though, some do.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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Each individual is unique in our mind’s attachments...just how we are. Mind has eons habit of grasping.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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Micro Bodhi what is Dharma!?
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:12 am
LastLegend wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:08 am It’s possible to have insight into ones own mind through texts but quite rare...however those who read Mahaprajnaparamita Sutras such as one above will be lead by Buddhas to have insight.
Yes, one needs a teacher to point out the nature of mind, generally speaking, but that is not really what we are talking about. We are talking about the status of Dharma texts as Dharma. How one could believe that Dharma texts are not Dharma, I am not sure. Apparently though, some do.
Malcom, please re read and get it correct, its there for everyone to see you said there are two dharmas, i said how can there be two dharmas, please dont pick up on whats not there to try and swing things into your advantage, its a bit insecure. Just scroll back, my point was that translations and texts can be misleading, hence the confusion for the OP, whereas direct insight cannot, ... work hard to keep the post and topics on track, this means that humans are prone to mistranslate things or teach in the wrong way, even with the high status lamas and gurus have diverted from the dharma but insight is undeniable and solid.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Fri May 14, 2021 6:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: removed ad homs
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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Inconceivable samadhi is because it cannot be conceived and described...Buddha nature isn’t anything to be described. Whatever describes it is conceivable mind. Personally I am stuck at trying to break free from differentiation. That’s still a construct and attachment.

Moreover a differentiating mind is still appearance...passage says free of mental appearance. Then Buddha even denies inconceivable samadhi because Buddha knows we attach.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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Like when we speak of bodhi, that’s conceiving it...how do we know something without conceiving it? Buddha says everything is inconceivable including Bodhi. In the passage and Sutra. I quoted!
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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Inconceivable is Buddha nature itself...it’s the great samadhi. Then he denies this great samadhi. Grasping what we learn and construct in mind is our hindrance. Diamond Sutra says Dharma is to be let go along with Non-Dharma. The critique is we throw away the bath with baby. Well it’s about carving away and undo most just stick to the essence...essential practice works for me.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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It’s kind like there is nothing the mind needs to do to act because whatever it does and not do is attachment. But not really like that because we karma always kicks us hard. :lol: So we practice Bodhi.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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LastLegend wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:56 am Like when we speak of bodhi, that’s conceiving it...how do we know something without conceiving it? Buddha says everything is inconceivable including Bodhi. In the passage and Sutra. I quoted!
Bodhi is knowing the true nature of the relative, not just rejecting it. So, we cannot just say "I reject concepts" and not create another concept, it is knowing (as in Jnana, gnosis) the true nature of concepts that liberates us from their limitations, not rejecting them in favor of some other concept we have about awakening.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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To know/recognize means to differentiate. Are we agreeing on this definition? One hand we have a mind that knows nature, and then we have nature. Then what is nature?
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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LastLegend wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:07 am To know/recognize means to differentiate
No, that is not the sense of ‘know’ing the relative that we are talking about here:
https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?tit ... ial_wisdom

You are talking about vijnana, which literally divides or separates this knowledge.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

Post by MiphamFan »

My 2c:

I don't care if the historical Buddha existed, just that a Buddha taught (whether through physical form or visions).

I don't care if a teaching was taught by a historical man born as Gautama in the Shakya clan who achieved liberation, I only care that the liberation described and taught in the tradition is possible.

Personally I believe the Buddha lived and that many elements of Mahayana were already taught by him, but if not, it doesn't matter to me that much. I believe that Buddhahood is possible, this is more important to me tbh.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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Even in non-dual wisdom state, we still tell a different between any two things because that’s being sharp!
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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On the other hand, non-dual wisdom that’s nature itself and also known as mahaprajna but the function of telling a different isn’t absent...this function could be wisdom. The inseparability of this state has both nature and that function....

In Chan we specifically don’t accept this state as fully awakened even nature is there. We call this state the second moon and the expression of falling from 100 ft pole as fully awakened (which only nature is left, no that function).
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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LastLegend wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:31 am
In Chan we specifically don’t accept this state as fully awakened even nature is there.
What?

According to the Uttaratantra (iirc) there is no need for discrimination for Buddhas, they don't have "a mind" in that sense, and act spontaneously to benefit beings. They are not limited by discursive thought.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:45 am
LastLegend wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:31 am
In Chan we specifically don’t accept this state as fully awakened even nature is there.
What?
:lol:
That’s right. Your heard it right.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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LastLegend wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:46 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:45 am
LastLegend wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:31 am
In Chan we specifically don’t accept this state as fully awakened even nature is there.
What?
:lol:
That’s right. Your heard it right.
I said "what" because the statement wasn't comprehensible to me, not because I disagreed with it. i can't tell what you are trying to say.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:45 am
LastLegend wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:31 am
In Chan we specifically don’t accept this state as fully awakened even nature is there.
What?

According to the Uttaratantra (iirc) there is no need for discrimination for Buddhas, they don't have "a mind" in that sense, and act spontaneously to benefit beings. They are not limited by discursive thought.
Sorry we have to end it here.
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Re: So are Sutras really from the Buddha, or just fiction

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

.
The inseparability of this state has both nature and that function...
Appearances and emptiness are non dual, they appear separate to deluded beings.
which only nature is left, no that function
I don't think this is correct, it doesn't even sound correct in Chan to me. Chan does not teach some dualistic enlightenment, as far as I know.

If you mean that Buddhas have no volition in the way sentient beings do, then this makes sense.
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