Self-ordained monks, Vinaya de-emphasis, and the problem of religious violence

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FiveSkandhas
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Self-ordained monks, Vinaya de-emphasis, and the problem of religious violence

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Buddhist self-ordination or Bodhisattva ordination is a Mahayana practice that originated with the Indian Queen Srimala. The Srimala Sutra was composed during the third century CE. The formula of self-ordination was subsequently elaborated in the Buddha Net Sutra. The practice was commonplace in early China and later in Japan, especially in the sixth through eighth, twelfth through fourteenth, and seventeenth through nineteenth centuries.

Referred to as “Bodhisattva monks,” they are described as self-certified or self-ordained and self-enlightened or “enlightened without a teacher.” Many of the Bodhisattva monks were forest renunicates and eclectics, not specifically associated with any temple or school. Self-ordained Bodhisattva monks founded all the Tendai, Ritsu, Todaji, Zen, and Mukyoho Buddhist schools. The formula of self-ordination is also practiced in Tibet, where it is associated with the Mahasiddha and Ngakpa traditions (third through 13th centuries). Self-ordination is even practiced amongst the Theravadin forest renunciates as well.

The fundamental premise of self-ordination is the doctrine of the Tathagatagarbha that all individuals possess within themselves the potent Buddha-potentiality. This is based on the utterance of the Buddha, “I never had any teacher or divinity to teach me or tell me how to gain enlightenment. What I achieved I did by my own effort, energy, knowledge and purity.” Therefore, every individual possesses the capacity to become a Buddha within himself or herself. without a teacher. No one can deny this, since the
Buddha himself was self-ordained.
-Buddhist Self Ordination by Alexander Duncan

And then there is this:
Mushi-dokugo (無師独悟), sometimes called jigo-jishō (自悟自証, self-enlightened and self-certified), is a Japanese term used in Zen Buddhism which expresses the phenomenon known as "awakening alone, without a master"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushi-dokugo

What are the ramifications of the de-emphasizing of the Vinaya in China and especially Japan? Some have considered that phenomena such as the Zen-inspired "Samurai Bushido Warrior Code" and the "Sohei" warrior-monks could only have flourished in a place like Japan where precepts were so radically laweyered-around, twisted with Tendai doctrines like "Precept-essence", and even (as we see above) more or less baldly ignored. The concept of Zenkai Ichinyo ("The Oneness of Zen and the Precepts") states that the precepts are automatically realized through meditational practice...a dubious prospect at best.

And least it seems I'm ditching unfairly on Zen here, let's round out the picture with 16th-century Pure Land fanatics like the armed shock troops of the Ikko-Shu, the formidable Tendai private armies at Enryakuji, and grotesque incidents like beautiful Kiyomezudera of the "Northern Yogacara sect" being sacked by their armed rivals from the "Southern Yogacara sect" (who also took a little side-trip to burn the ancient mountain Shinto-Buddhist multiplex of Kinpukuji to the ground, ostensibly because it was syphoning off pilgrim revenue.)

Can all this religious violence be explained by a fast-and-loose attitude to the vinaya and, consequently, Buddhist Ethics in general? Or is the picture more complex?
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Self-ordained monks, Vinaya de-emphasis, and the problem of religious violence

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Another way of looking at it is,
in over 2500 years,
Only a handful of traditions
have been started by self-ordained monks.
Not much of a track record in terms of
vowing to save all sentient beings!
:jumping:
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Self-ordained monks, Vinaya de-emphasis, and the problem of religious violence

Post by Kim O'Hara »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:06 pm ...Can all this religious violence be explained by a fast-and-loose attitude to the vinaya and, consequently, Buddhist Ethics in general? Or is the picture more complex?
I think the nature of institutions per se is a more likely (and simpler) explanation. Every hierarchical organisation rewards clever, ambitious people with power, and they then want even more power and authority - basically because that's what motivated them in the first place. And we do know, don't we, that power corrupts.
You can see this dynamic at work in modern politics at every level from local councils to national parliaments. You can see it in mediaeval empires and city states (it's not for nothing that "Byzantine" and "Machiavellian" are terms of abuse). And you can see it in religious institutions both Eastern and Western, and in both of them the rules which are supposed to moderate it are too weak.

:thinking:
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Self-ordained monks, Vinaya de-emphasis, and the problem of religious violence

Post by SilenceMonkey »

First, it sounds like the author was using the term "ordination" a bit loosely. It seemed like he was using it for giving oneself monks' vows, bodhisattva vows and tantric vows (he mentioned in the ngakpa and mahasiddha traditions, self-ordination was practiced... whatever that means). Second, it sounded like he was also conflating self-ordination with self-enlightenment? Or maybe this was intentional:

I was just reading in Dudjom Rinpoche's "Perfect Conduct," his commentary on the 3 vows, that as soon as one achieves liberation, the full vows of monastic ordination spontaneously take birth in one's mindstream. According to the "ritual of the past" of acquiring monastic vows, there are 10 methods of doing so. In the first, if one attains the level of being "fully awakened" (ie. Buddha) or "personal victor" (ie. Pratyekabuddhas) these vows are spontaneously self-originated in the mind-stream. In the second, if one attains the path of seeing (the example given was the five excellent ones, ie. the first five disciples of Buddha), the same happened... it was termed receiving the vows "through primordial wisdom realization."

I'm not sure the self-ordination would be a fast and loose interpretation of the vinaya, would it? I mean, if self-ordination rituals were part of the vinaya in the first place, then there's no problem there.

As for the violence... I can see how that might related to bad discipline, but I don't see how you got there from the self-ordination. Even if self-ordination wasn't originally a part of the vinaya, wouldn't it point to people being more attentive to the monastic discipline and not less? After all, they would have really wanted to become monks or nuns.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Self-ordained monks, Vinaya de-emphasis, and the problem of religious violence

Post by SilenceMonkey »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:06 pm The concept of Zenkai Ichinyo ("The Oneness of Zen and the Precepts") states that the precepts are automatically realized through meditational practice...a dubious prospect at best.
I can understand this. Zen has the function of making all afflictions in one's mind emptiness. With no afflictions to speak of, no discipline would be broken so this would be Discipline Paramita. The root is wiped clean.

From another perspective, how can one break one's vows while sitting?
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Self-ordained monks, Vinaya de-emphasis, and the problem of religious violence

Post by FiveSkandhas »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 5:32 am
From another perspective, how can one break one's vows while sitting?
Well, I think you grasp the general idea.

However, if you are just sitting and breathing calmly while some poor fellow is choking to death on a chicken bone stuck in his throat a few meters in front of you, it hardly seems like a moral way of being, in my humble opinion anyway.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Self-ordained monks, Vinaya de-emphasis, and the problem of religious violence

Post by SilenceMonkey »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 5:51 am
SilenceMonkey wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 5:32 am
From another perspective, how can one break one's vows while sitting?
Well, I think you grasp the general idea.

However, if you are just sitting and breathing calmly while some poor fellow is choking to death on a chicken bone stuck in his throat a few meters in front of you, it hardly seems like a moral way of being, in my humble opinion anyway.
Haha, on that rare occasion, I'm sure a zen student would get up right away to save the man.
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LastLegend
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Re: Self-ordained monks, Vinaya de-emphasis, and the problem of religious violence

Post by LastLegend »

Agreed with Silencemonkey on his last post.

Precepts start with intention, and intention is mind.

I personally love being a lay practitioner...I feel more free. If I want to drink a beer I can...I can live like the rest of everyone...If a Mahayana monk is seen drinking beer and eating meats, he is in trouble.
It’s eye blinking.
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