Mudita

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mabw
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Mudita

Post by mabw »

Greetings,

What has, in your experience, been most effective in cultivating sympathetic joy and reducing jealousy?


Thank you in advance.
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Queequeg
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Re: Mudita

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metta, karuna and uppecka.

That's what I do to work on it, anyways. Can't say I've made significant progress.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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narhwal90
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Volunteering at a food pantry.
Malcolm
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Re: Mudita

Post by Malcolm »

mabw wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:57 pm Greetings,

What has, in your experience, been most effective in cultivating sympathetic joy and reducing jealousy?
Equanimity, upekṣa. Though it is normally listed last, according to Kamalashila, it should be cultivated first in order that one does not mistake attachment for love, compassion, and sympathetic joy.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Mudita

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mabw wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:57 pm Greetings,

What has, in your experience, been most effective in cultivating sympathetic joy and reducing jealousy?


Thank you in advance.
Like Malcolm's answer, I also found starting with equanimity to be vital. In fact, all the Four Immeasurables as a practice (whether formal or in daily life) made much more sense to me once I began to start with equanimity. Sometimes I even recite "may beings rest in equanimity free of attachment and hatred" internally until I 'feel' it and can proceed to cultivate the other immeasurables.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

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mabw
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Re: Mudita

Post by mabw »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:51 pm

Like Malcolm's answer, I also found starting with equanimity to be vital. In fact, all the Four Immeasurables as a practice (whether formal or in daily life) made much more sense to me once I began to start with equanimity. Sometimes I even recite "may beings rest in equanimity free of attachment and hatred" internally until I 'feel' it and can proceed to cultivate the other immeasurables.
The recitation part is useful. So once you "feel" it, how do you cultivate sympathetic joy?
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Johnny Dangerous
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mabw wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:40 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:51 pm

Like Malcolm's answer, I also found starting with equanimity to be vital. In fact, all the Four Immeasurables as a practice (whether formal or in daily life) made much more sense to me once I began to start with equanimity. Sometimes I even recite "may beings rest in equanimity free of attachment and hatred" internally until I 'feel' it and can proceed to cultivate the other immeasurables.
The recitation part is useful. So once you "feel" it, how do you cultivate sympathetic joy?
By literally thinking thoughts of sympathetic joy, "may all beings/this particular person/this group of people etc. never be separated from the joy that is free of suffering etc." The point of the recitations and meditations is to "feel it", to be in that state.

Thinking about others specifically obtaining success in what they do, up to eventually attaining enlightenment, etc. and kind of abiding in the tone that the thoughts create.

In this regard, lots of the Mahayana texts on this subject don't require much elucidation, you pretty much
fake it till ya make it.

If you are a particularly jealous person there are different strategies, depending on the vehicle you are practicing in. But obviously this is the antidote for jealousy, so if you are practicing in the Mahayana form you practice the antidote to jealously when it arises, or preferably before!

If you want more specifics, I'll share what I've learned from the teacher who taught me Mahayana practice in the most detail: The way I was taught it pretty much operates like the original Cognitive-Behavioral therapy.

You catch yourself having a jealous thought and say to yourself "hmm, maybe that it isn't how it is at all, I am caught up in jealousy now", and you practice the antidote, right then and there. It's a very fake-feeling practice at first. It also doesn't work that well if you are in a really acute phase of jealous thoughts, etc.

That again is why you begin with equanimity, or even include these practices in meditation sessions when you have already cultivated some amount of mental stability and equanimity. Some level of mental stability precedes the ability to practice these effectively, as I've been taught.

This also lines up with most of the current thought in Psychology, where you cannot really employ Cognitive strategies when you are highly upset, your nervous system is all keyed up, you have released a bunch of cortisol, etc. because it actually alters your thinking, making cognitive strategies less useful at the time. So again, if you cannot make this work you practice for stability and equanimity....rinse, repeat.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Mudita

Post by FiveSkandhas »

:techproblem:
mabw wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:57 pm Greetings,

What has, in your experience, been most effective in cultivating sympathetic joy and reducing jealousy?


Thank you in advance.
Getting older, in my case. Just watching conventional aspirations flake off and flutter away. I used to have a big problem with jealousy but it seems to have cured itself with time. Your mileage may vary.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
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Re: Mudita

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mabw wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:57 pm Greetings,

What has, in your experience, been most effective in cultivating sympathetic joy and reducing jealousy?


Thank you in advance.
Jealousy has no form :lol: .
It’s eye blinking.
Giovanni
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Re: Mudita

Post by Giovanni »

As Malcolm and Johnny say each of Brahma Viharas must be developed all together. Mudita or metta without upeksha becomes mundane love or mundane concern which is ego slightly masked. Upeksha without metta or mudita becomes cold detachment.
And all arise in Shunyata. If this view is lost all becomes mundane affliction.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Mudita

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 5:11 am
mabw wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:40 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:51 pm

Like Malcolm's answer, I also found starting with equanimity to be vital. In fact, all the Four Immeasurables as a practice (whether formal or in daily life) made much more sense to me once I began to start with equanimity. Sometimes I even recite "may beings rest in equanimity free of attachment and hatred" internally until I 'feel' it and can proceed to cultivate the other immeasurables.
The recitation part is useful. So once you "feel" it, how do you cultivate sympathetic joy?
By literally thinking thoughts of sympathetic joy, "may all beings/this particular person/this group of people etc. never be separated from the joy that is free of suffering etc." The point of the recitations and meditations is to "feel it", to be in that state.

Thinking about others specifically obtaining success in what they do, up to eventually attaining enlightenment, etc. and kind of abiding in the tone that the thoughts create. ...
The sequence that is taught in metta meditation - generating metta towards self, then to loved ones, then to acquaintances, strangers and finally enemies - should be equally useful in mudita meditation.

Or you might like to look at both of them in terms of not-self, in which case you arrive quite quickly at the Golden Rule.

:namaste:
Kim
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Mudita

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Dr. Berzin has a nice series of articles on dealing with envy from a Buddhist perspective. Links to the subsequent articles are at the bottom of this first one:

https://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-bu ... g-emotions
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
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LastLegend
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Re: Mudita

Post by LastLegend »

mabw wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:57 pm Greetings,

What has, in your experience, been most effective in cultivating sympathetic joy and reducing jealousy?


Thank you in advance.
Jealousy could be environmental...it’s not strictly yours you might have some seeds but it could be conjured by people that you are surrounded.

The safest practice is to sit relax and arise a gentle loving thought towards Avalokiteshvara.
It’s eye blinking.
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LastLegend
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Re: Mudita

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We live in Saha world it’s defiled.
It’s eye blinking.
mabw
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Re: Mudita

Post by mabw »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 5:11 am
By literally thinking thoughts of sympathetic joy, "may all beings/this particular person/this group of people etc. never be separated from the joy that is free of suffering etc." The point of the recitations and meditations is to "feel it", to be in that state.

Thinking about others specifically obtaining success in what they do, up to eventually attaining enlightenment, etc. and kind of abiding in the tone that the thoughts create.
By antidote, you mean the above right?
mabw
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Re: Mudita

Post by mabw »

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Mudita

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

mabw wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:57 pmWhat has, in your experience, been most effective in cultivating sympathetic joy and reducing jealousy?
Jealousy arises from the desire to have what someone else has, and the frustration at oneself not having it. Jealousy is directed at the object.
Envy is directed at the person who possesses the object that you desire.

In my experience, the most effective thing is to develop a sense of contentment and satisfaction with what you already have.

The reason for this is because desire comes from the feeling that one won’t be satisfied until one ‘possesses’ a certain object (possession can mean attract, acquire, etc. You don’t possess another person, but perhaps you want them to feel attracted to you rather than to someone else, and jealousy arises).

But if you take an inventory of yourself, you will probably discover that either you already have within you everything you need to feel happy, so there is no reason for jealousy, or if you don’t, then you will likely realize that what you really need isn’t to be found outside of yourself anyway, and that being jealous of others won’t help.

Also, consider that just because someone else has something you don’t, or is in a relationship with the person you wish was with you, this doesn’t prevent them from suffering either. Many very wealthy people are quite miserable. Bill and Melinda Gates just broke up. So, it’s not the external conditions that give us contentment.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Mudita

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mabw wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:58 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 5:11 am
By literally thinking thoughts of sympathetic joy, "may all beings/this particular person/this group of people etc. never be separated from the joy that is free of suffering etc." The point of the recitations and meditations is to "feel it", to be in that state.

Thinking about others specifically obtaining success in what they do, up to eventually attaining enlightenment, etc. and kind of abiding in the tone that the thoughts create.
By antidote, you mean the above right?
I mean that sympathetic joy is traditionally the antidote for jealousy, so you would employ it just as or before jealousy arises. So yeah, that's the basic method that I'm aware of.

Here is a chart with the far and near "enemies" of the Four Immeasurables:

Image

I might suggest B. Allan Wallaces book on the Four Immeasurables.
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Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Re: Mudita

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Meditation (shamatha and vipassana) and practicing generosity.
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