An intersubjective experience in Yogacara

[Supramundane]

Very true!

[PadmaVonSamba]

--- The materialist believes we only have this life.

--- The eternalist believes we shall live forever.

The Buddha found a middle way: rebirth.

So did the Buddha die, or did he simply dissipate into the Sangha...

Rebirth was already an accepted fate before the Buddha appeared. What he pointed out was a method to escape rebirth.

When it was time, the aggregates of his physical body went through the dying process.

As for the Buddha’s mind, what happened then?
Different traditions tell different stories.

[Supramundane]

Early buddhism is contrasted with contemporary materialist Indian schools that believed in man having one life terminated by death.

It also avoided positing an atman and becoming a votary of reincarnation; the buddha thus opted for rebirth.

You are right that the salvation element was specific to buddhism, which prescribed an escape from the vortex of an illusory self.

In the Maha-nidana sutra, by shunning the ephemeral world of nama-rupa, consciousness can escape the vortex to fall instead upon nirvana. Theravada later seemed to have strayed from this initial idea by instead favoring "cessation".

[Malcolm]

Early buddhism is contrasted with contemporary materialist Indian schools that believed in man having one life terminated by death.

It also avoided positing an atman and becoming a votary of reincarnation; the buddha thus opted for rebirth.

You are right that the salvation element was specific to buddhism, which prescribed an escape from the vortex of an illusory self.

In the Maha-nidana sutra, by shunning the ephemeral world of nama-rupa, consciousness can escape the vortex to fall instead upon nirvana. Theravada later seemed to have strayed from this initial idea by instead favoring "cessation".

Bronkhorst recently uploaded a couple of interesting papers on Charvakas an Academia.edu:

https://www.academia.edu/46040997/Who_were_the_Cārvākas
https://www.academia.edu/46041000/Corre ... nasaṃgraha
https://www.academia.edu/46040958/Ājīvi ... considered

[LastLegend]

--- The materialist believes we only have this life.

--- The eternalist believes we shall live forever.

The Buddha found a middle way: rebirth.

So did the Buddha die, or did he simply dissipate into the Sangha...

Rebirth was already an accepted fate before the Buddha appeared. What he pointed out was a method to escape rebirth.

When it was time, the aggregates of his physical body went through the dying process.

As for the Buddha’s mind, what happened then?
Different traditions tell different stories.

Well Nature is unborn undead.

[Supramundane]

Early buddhism is contrasted with contemporary materialist Indian schools that believed in man having one life terminated by death.

It also avoided positing an atman and becoming a votary of reincarnation; the buddha thus opted for rebirth.

You are right that the salvation element was specific to buddhism, which prescribed an escape from the vortex of an illusory self.

In the Maha-nidana sutra, by shunning the ephemeral world of nama-rupa, consciousness can escape the vortex to fall instead upon nirvana. Theravada later seemed to have strayed from this initial idea by instead favoring "cessation".

Bronkhorst recently uploaded a couple of interesting papers on Charvakas an Academia.edu:

https://www.academia.edu/46040997/Who_were_the_Cārvākas
https://www.academia.edu/46041000/Corre ... nasaṃgraha
https://www.academia.edu/46040958/Ājīvi ... considered

Good stuff, thanks

[LastLegend]

Non-appearance is not expressible. Sorry keep repeating boring stuff... but sometimes doubt arises along with different views of material science. Even when Mahaprajnaparamita Sutra by Mạnushri said all sentient beings have inconceivable appearance...it’s because ‘inconceivable’ is language and language is appearance.

[LastLegend]

I am translating these lines from Sixth Patriarch:

"Ðâu ngờ tự tánh vốn tự thanh tịnh,

Ðâu ngờ tự tánh vốn chẳng sanh diệt,

Ðâu ngờ tự tánh vốn tự đầy đủ.

Ðâu ngờ tự tánh vốn chẳng lay động.

Ðâu ngờ tự tánh hay sanh vạn pháp."

“Surprisingly Self-Nature is already pure.”
“Surprisingly Self-Nature is unborn undead.”
“Surprisingly Self-Nature is already complete.”
“Surprisingly Self-Nature is unshakable.”
“Surprisingly Self-Nature often arises numerous dharma.”

[LastLegend]

Nihilistic idea is based on fear and imaginative thought that there is nothing there...but dharmas often arise if there isn’t anything there, how does dharmas arise?

4. Question: How do we know the inherent mind is fundamentally unborn and undying?

Answer: The Scripture Spoken by Vimalakirti says that suchness has no birth and suchness has no death. Suchness is true thusness, the Buddha-nature that is inherently pure. Purity is the source of mind; true thusness is always there and does not arise from conditions.

The scripture also says that all ordinary beings are Thus, and all sages and saints are also Thus. "All ordinary beings", refers to us; "all sages and saints" refers to the Buddhas. Although their names and appearances differ, the objective nature of true thusness in their bodies is the same. Being unborn and undying, it is called Thus. That is how we know the inherent mind is fundamentally unborn and undying.

https://terebess.hu/zen/daman.html

[PadmaVonSamba]

Nihilistic idea is based on fear and imaginative thought that there is nothing there...but dharmas often arise if there isn’t anything there, how does dharmas arise?

4. Question: How do we know the inherent mind is fundamentally unborn and undying?

Answer: The Scripture Spoken by Vimalakirti says that suchness has no birth and suchness has no death. Suchness is true thusness, the Buddha-nature that is inherently pure. Purity is the source of mind; true thusness is always there and does not arise from conditions.

The scripture also says that all ordinary beings are Thus, and all sages and saints are also Thus. "All ordinary beings", refers to us; "all sages and saints" refers to the Buddhas. Although their names and appearances differ, the objective nature of true thusness in their bodies is the same. Being unborn and undying, it is called Thus. That is how we know the inherent mind is fundamentally unborn and undying.

https://terebess.hu/zen/daman.html

That quote describes “what” but doesn’t explain “how”.

Dharmas arise precisely because
there isn’t anything there.
...as in, “it’s not a thing”

Arising dharmas are manifestations of ignorance.

[LastLegend]

Nihilistic idea is based on fear and imaginative thought that there is nothing there...but dharmas often arise if there isn’t anything there, how does dharmas arise?

4. Question: How do we know the inherent mind is fundamentally unborn and undying?

Answer: The Scripture Spoken by Vimalakirti says that suchness has no birth and suchness has no death. Suchness is true thusness, the Buddha-nature that is inherently pure. Purity is the source of mind; true thusness is always there and does not arise from conditions.

The scripture also says that all ordinary beings are Thus, and all sages and saints are also Thus. "All ordinary beings", refers to us; "all sages and saints" refers to the Buddhas. Although their names and appearances differ, the objective nature of true thusness in their bodies is the same. Being unborn and undying, it is called Thus. That is how we know the inherent mind is fundamentally unborn and undying.

https://terebess.hu/zen/daman.html

That quote describes “what” but doesn’t explain “how”.

Dharmas arise precisely because
there isn’t anything there.
...as in, “it’s not a thing”

Arising dharmas are manifestations of ignorance.

I mean yes...as long as we are not falling prey to nihilism.