rebirth and veganism

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haha
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by haha »

DNS wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:30 pm
I mean what if a plant has one soul but someone cuts off a branch or sapling and this sapling continues to live, to have life force (jiva)? Since there was only one soul in that plant, the sapling wouldn't have another soul, but yet it has jiva. It could be a glitch or mistake in the Jain rebirth and soul teaching.
Life in other form is not regarded as fully developed. They are evolving. For the sake of argument, I am just saying but that could not be more accurate from that tradition. That point is not address in Haribhadra’s argument. In this case, I will make assumption that the plant is still evolving. If it is said only one soul, then the new sapling is emanation from same continuum of that soul. And, the soul has infinite potentiality. If one does not say one, then they are different continuum. However, I will end my unnecessary defense here.

:anjali:
SilenceMonkey
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by SilenceMonkey »

A sentient plants thread in both dharmawheel and dhammawheel from 10 years ago. The Dhammawheel thread has some nice scriptural authority for the question of plant sentience and whether we shouldn't harm plants.

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=2947
https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=1204

And a few scholarly articles on the subject. The Schmithausen article is a nice comparative study.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3087619?seq=1
https://buddhanature.tsadra.org/index.p ... t_Buddhism
http://buddhism.org/kr/koan/Robert_Sharf-e.htm
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seeker242
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by seeker242 »

clyde wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:14 pm This is a sincere question but touches on two sensitive topics: rebirth and veganism.
I don't see how this touches the topic of veganism. Even if plants were sentient, vegan would still be the best choice since less plants are killed anyway.


Chan Master Sheng Yen gave a talk on plants once. :)


One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
Giovanni
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by Giovanni »

This is clearly untrue.😂 One bag of rice equals many thousands of dead plants plus the weeds and other plants plus dead worms etc.
A steak comes from one dead sentient.Which concentrates dead plants. Meat or plant = dead plant.
Welcome to Samsara!
Of course plants are not sentient according to most Vajrayana. But let’s be serious🙂
Malcolm
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by Malcolm »

Giovanni wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:24 pm This is clearly untrue.😂 One bag of rice equals many thousands of dead plants plus the weeds and other plants plus dead worms etc.
Plus all the feather meal used to fertilize rice, etc., in growing all that organic produce for vegans.
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seeker242
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by seeker242 »

Giovanni wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:24 pm This is clearly untrue.😂 One bag of rice equals many thousands of dead plants plus the weeds and other plants plus dead worms etc.
A steak comes from one dead sentient.Which concentrates dead plants. Meat or plant = dead plant.
Welcome to Samsara!
Of course plants are not sentient according to most Vajrayana. But let’s be serious
This is clearly untrue as a steak comes from an animal that tens of thousands of plants are cultivated and killed to feed it with. They don't just "concentrate dead plants". What do you think happens, they just roam around looking for dead plants, meanwhile avoiding the live ones? Lets be serious, it makes no sense to think only one being is killed when you are counting plants as beings. 😂

And that's not even counting all the animals and plants killed by cultivating so many extra crops, tilling and harvesting so many extra fields. Spraying so much extra herbicides and pesticides. And it's also not counting the animals and plants killed by all the extra water pollution caused by farming livestock. And it's also not counting all the animals and plants killed by burning down rainforest to make room for cattle ranches. The list goes on. Let’s be serious, it's not nearly as simple as one cow being killed.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
Giovanni
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by Giovanni »

Nothing is simple. Plants, cows and people all in a strange dance of samsara. No one is pure. No one gets out alive like Jim Morrison said. Eat what you have with thanks, .raise Bodhicitta and realise Original Mind. All else is wind and rain.
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seeker242
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by seeker242 »

We are in Samsara. Which is why it should be important to minimize the amount of suffering that we cause and contribute to. Just because were in Samsara doesn’t mean anything goes.

Although, I do find it interesting though that when it comes to animals suffering people are like “man it’s just Samsara”. Yet they would never say that or never be caught dead saying that if it were people that were suffering. China's Treatment Of Uighurs? Hey, it’s just samsara. Shouldn’t need to do anything about that it’s just Samsara anyway. Human trafficking? Don’t need to do anything about that either, after all it’s just samsara anyway. Of course those are ridiculous statements but when it comes to animals it’s perfectly fine thing to say. That doesn’t make much sense. None at all really.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
Giovanni
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by Giovanni »

We are not “in samsara” Samsara is not a place. Samsara is the result of not seeing that all things are Interdependent and without a permanent self. The best we can do for humans and animals is awaken. And meat eaters and no meat eaters have awoken both.
Then they can help. Before that they can have kind feelings, but the wheel of samsara still turns. Consciousness enters animal womb, human womb, Preta state, veggie burgers do not help that. It is splitting hairs.
Eat what we can to live and let the mind rest in rigpa.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

My teacher used to say that while a vegetarian diet was best if one could manage it (this eas years before the term and designation ‘vegan’), a person shouldn’t think that by not eating meat that they aren’t killing millions of beings or that millions of beings aren’t being killed to sustain their diet.
So yeah, it’s a good thing, but even if you are a vegan, you are not (to borrow a phrase derived from butchery) off the hook.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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seeker242
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by seeker242 »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 pm My teacher used to say that while a vegetarian diet was best if one could manage it (this eas years before the term and designation ‘vegan’)

Are you sure about that because that happened in 1944! :lol:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: rebirth and veganism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

seeker242 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:17 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 pm My teacher used to say that while a vegetarian diet was best if one could manage it (this eas years before the term and designation ‘vegan’)

Are you sure about that because that happened in 1944! :lol:
Well, I had been a vegetarian since 1973 at that time, and had never heard the term until this century
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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