With regards to impermanence - what is permanent? Is Buddha or Buddhahood permanent?

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Budai
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:12 pm
Location: ༀ ∞ Nam Myoho Renge Kyo ∞ ༀ

With regards to impermanence - what is permanent? Is Buddha or Buddhahood permanent?

Post by Budai »

Because that would seem like it is a clear yes to me, and Buddhahood and Buddha aren't just concepts flowing down the river of mind, they are the very centers of Guatama's Teachings and who He is, and the fabric of the Metta of Sunyata.

If you understand Buddhahood and Buddha as permanent, please let me know how you find this to be true. If you don't, I would also like to understand your opinion on the matter. Also, is there anything else permanent? Would Buddhahood and Buddha then he permanent because they are outside of Samsara, while other things there be just like a temporary dream? What about Metta, and the Metta of the unenlightened individual, does that share a permanent connection to the Buddha? I would like a Mahayana view on this, as well as anyone's meditative understanding.

:buddha2:

:namaste:
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: With regards to impermanence - what is permanent? Is Buddha or Buddhahood permanent?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Generally, no, as that is the Hindu heresy.

However there are outliers.
Situ R. “Ground, Path, Fruition”:
Question: Earlier you said that Buddha-nature is in each and every one of us and it is always there. Could you also say that Buddha-nature is permanent? Rinpoche: I could say that. I am a proponent of Shentong, so I can say that. If I had to choose out of these two, permanent and impermanent, I would say the Buddha-nature is permanent. However, I would also answer that it is beyond being permanent or impermanent. I have to say it is more than permanent but if you only give me these two choices, permanent or impermanent, I have to say permanent. If after that you asked for further clarification I would say it was more than permanent because being “permanent” is related to being “impermanent,” it is dualistic.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
User avatar
Budai
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:12 pm
Location: ༀ ∞ Nam Myoho Renge Kyo ∞ ༀ

Re: With regards to impermanence - what is permanent? Is Buddha or Buddhahood permanent?

Post by Budai »

Thank you. Yes, he mentions a level of duality. However, once Buddhahood is reached, it is at least understood it is a state of Highest non-regression, hence, permanent. Though does Buddhahood fully Transcend the duality mentioned then?

:anjali:
Last edited by Budai on Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jingtoo2
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:18 am

Re: With regards to impermanence - what is permanent? Is Buddha or Buddhahood permanent?

Post by Jingtoo2 »

Is Buddhahood a “state”..that we “reach”? Does that not reduce Buddhanature to a thing, an object that we possess?
User avatar
Budai
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:12 pm
Location: ༀ ∞ Nam Myoho Renge Kyo ∞ ༀ

Re: With regards to impermanence - what is permanent? Is Buddha or Buddhahood permanent?

Post by Budai »

Jingtoo2 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:30 am Is Buddhahood a “state”..that we “reach”? Does that not reduce Buddhanature to a thing, an object that we possess?
It is a Transcendental state of Enlightenment from what I understand, the Highest level of understanding and Metta that embraces all phenomena. The concept of the "state of no regression" is an important concept mentioned in the Lotus Sutra.

Also objects don't always have to be constructs, though they may be empty of an essence, I believe there are Buddha-Lands such as mentioned in the Lotus Sutra that contain wonderful things, made of the Stream of Nirvana and Awakening. It depends on what you mean by object but I think you have the right idea.
Last edited by Budai on Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:55 am, edited 4 times in total.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: With regards to impermanence - what is permanent? Is Buddha or Buddhahood permanent?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Brahma wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:15 am Thank you. Yes, he mentions a level of duality. However, once Buddhahood is reached, it is at least understood it is a state of Highest non-regression, hence, permanent. Though does Buddhahood fully Transcend the duality mentioned then?

:anjali:
Yes.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 8883
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: With regards to impermanence - what is permanent? Is Buddha or Buddhahood permanent?

Post by Astus »

All conditioned things are impermanent, only what is unconditioned is permanent.

And for the Mahayana point of view, the Samdhinirmocana Sutra puts it nicely (ch 2, BDK ed, p 12):

"Good son, the term 'unconditioned' is also a word provisionally invented by the First Teacher. Now, if the First Teacher provisionally invented this word, then it is a verbal expression apprehended by imagination. And, if it is a verbal expression apprehended by imagination, then, in the final analysis, such an imagined description does not validate a real thing. Therefore, the unconditioned does not exist. Good son, the term 'conditioned' is also invented from language [and it validates nothing real]."
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Post Reply

Return to “Mahāyāna Buddhism”