Karmic cause become gay

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Norden
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Norden »

Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:12 am
Crazywisdom wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 6:43 pm
Norden wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 2:34 pm Hello guys

As far as I can tell Buddha never condemns gay people, Buddha taught us to have compassion to all living beings. But the question is, what is the karmic cause that makes someone become a gay? Thanks in advance.
The general principal in dharma is habit.
How is it possible when she or he is not gay in the first place? Would you consider using sex toys will make someone make someone as a gay person? Just want to discuss this, I don't mean to offend anyone.
Thanks all for your prompt reply, appreciate that :anjali: how about using sex toys, I read somewhere that sexual activity is considered not natural therefore can potentially make someone become gay? Does anyone have any thoughts ?
Norden
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Norden »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:05 am
Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:22 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 7:02 pm ...the same karma that causes a person to be straight
Can you elaborate that?
What’s to elaborate?
It’s like asking what karma
makes a person left handed
rather than the opposite, right handed.
Every being trapped in samsara
is driven by the same passions.
The only difference is in the body part.
Why does one person like to read
and another person likes to hear music?
Eyes, ears, penises, vaginas
Desire doesn’t really care which door you use.
People who are not heterosexual generally experience more discrimination and other unwanted treatment related to their sexuality compare to heterosexual people. Therefore, it causes much more suffering compare to left handed people, for example. Since the consequences cause relatively different degree of suffering, it can be said they are not "only body part".
Norden
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Norden »

Queequeg wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 1:25 am
Caoimhghín wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 9:25 pm Well, it certainly explains why there's so many straight people. It's just all that homosexual experimentation with non-monogamy. It's just going to feed into itself forever, as more and more straight people start experimenting with non-monogamy.

:toilet:
Hey, if it keeps you rotating through the human realm...

"But sweetie, I'm just ensuring my rebirth as a human. It really didn't mean anything."
Thanks for this reply ;) :namaste:
Norden
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Norden »

Caoimhghín wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 3:28 am
Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:28 am
Caoimhghín wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 8:45 pm
Traditionally, many will tell you it is because of past cheating. Specifically, men who cheat on their wives are born gay and women who cheat on their husbands are born lesbian. I doubt there's any canonical justification for this. Perhaps there is.

We can only assume being born straight is due to cheating on your homosexual lover.

In my opinion, having seen this myth told, it is that the point of it is to get you not to cheat, the idea being that a straight man would have the most horror at being reborn as a gay man, and women vice-versa, thus theoretically ensuring fidelity.
In other words, when someone is faithful to his spouse or partner his sexuality is guaranteed to be straight.
That's the narrative, yes. It's designed to make people eager to be faithful unto their spouse, in a monogamous sense, lest they end up homosexual in the future.
That's interesting, isn't it? There are many using fear to keep people on track, not to mention false perception, understanding and damage they cause which are born together with it. It's not only Abrahamic religions who use fear to control people.
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LastLegend
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by LastLegend »

Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:47 am
Caoimhghín wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 3:28 am
Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:28 am

In other words, when someone is faithful to his spouse or partner his sexuality is guaranteed to be straight.
That's the narrative, yes. It's designed to make people eager to be faithful unto their spouse, in a monogamous sense, lest they end up homosexual in the future.
That's interesting, isn't it? There are many using fear to keep people on track, not to mention false perception, understanding and damage they cause which are born together with it. It's not only Abrahamic religions who use fear to control people.
It’s not like that it’s choice you choose and karma associated with it. If you choose to create karma as a part of your path, no problem. It comes down to your endurance and courage. If you choose to cut off cause of suffering and delusional perceptions that’s a different path. It’s not meant to be fear driven. Clearly know your action and which road you are taking and that for you alone to decide. Know where you are as well such as if you are enlightened like Buddha or a very high Bodhisattva. To be on safe side, don’t create unnecessary karma. Dharma is vast.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
master of puppets
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by master of puppets »

LastLegend wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 6:09 am To be on safe side, don’t create unnecessary karma.
:thumbsup:
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:34 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:05 am
Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:22 am

Can you elaborate that?
What’s to elaborate?
It’s like asking what karma
makes a person left handed
rather than the opposite, right handed.
Every being trapped in samsara
is driven by the same passions.
The only difference is in the body part.
Why does one person like to read
and another person likes to hear music?
Eyes, ears, penises, vaginas
Desire doesn’t really care which door you use.
People who are not heterosexual generally experience more discrimination and other unwanted treatment related to their sexuality compare to heterosexual people. Therefore, it causes much more suffering compare to left handed people, for example. Since the consequences cause relatively different degree of suffering, it can be said they are not "only body part".
The word “sinister” literally means left-handed. At one time, left handed people were regarded as evil and dishonest.

You are describing a condition of society.
One might as well argue that people are born with dark skin, or female, because of some negative action in a past life. There are people who actually believe this.

This is an example of a common misunderstanding about karma. In effect, it makes karma dependent on the existence of white, straight, male patriarchy, for without that, being a gay, female person of color wouldn’t exist as conditions.

On the other hand, one of the conditions of ‘previous human birth’ is to be born at a time and place where one has access to the Dharma, not in a land of ‘barbarians’, in good health, not living in danger, and so on. Yet these too are environmental circumstances. So how is that not also making karma dependent on external conditions? After all, what about interdependent arising? Doesn’t the Dharma teach everything connected to everything else?
Yes, it is, which is precisely why you can’t isolate any one thing, any one condition, such as being gay or whatever, and say “ah! That’s the result of such and such karma”.

It isn’t the condition of the person which is karmic result, but rather, how the mind of the person experiences those conditions, because suffering or not suffering are not experienced anywhere outside of the mind of the one having the experience.

Thus, a person born into incredible wealth may never feel satisfied, may constantly strive for more wealth and power, never joyful, with nothing in life ever good enough, in effect living as a hungry ghost in this very lifetime, whereas a person born into relatively low income may still have a mind which is content, even joyous, regardless of what circumstances may come and go.

Of course, it is taught that a life of difficulties and a life of hardships are the result of karma. This is true in a general sense, in an interconnected sense. But you can’t say that any specific thing, being gay or straight for example, itself, is the result of positive or negative actions. One might be born gay, and might also be born in a land where gay people are discriminated against. Being born gay isn’t the result of negative karma. But being born in a land where one will be discriminated against (for whatever reason) is.
It’s very fine distinction, easy to miss.
。。。
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
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LastLegend
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by LastLegend »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 2:42 pm
Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:34 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:05 am

What’s to elaborate?
It’s like asking what karma
makes a person left handed
rather than the opposite, right handed.
Every being trapped in samsara
is driven by the same passions.
The only difference is in the body part.
Why does one person like to read
and another person likes to hear music?
Eyes, ears, penises, vaginas
Desire doesn’t really care which door you use.
People who are not heterosexual generally experience more discrimination and other unwanted treatment related to their sexuality compare to heterosexual people. Therefore, it causes much more suffering compare to left handed people, for example. Since the consequences cause relatively different degree of suffering, it can be said they are not "only body part".
You are describing a condition of society.
One might as well argue that people are born with dark skin, or female, because of some negative action in a past life.
This is an example of a common misunderstanding about karma. In effect, it makes karma dependent on the existence of white, straight, male patriarchy, for without that, being a gay, female person of color wouldn’t exist as conditions.
On the other hand, one of the conditions of ‘previous human birth’ is to be born at a time and place where one has access to the Dharma, not in a land of ‘barbarians’, in good health, not living in danger, and so on. Yet these too are environmental circumstances. So how is that not also making karma dependent on external conditions? After all, what about interdependent arising? Doesn’t the Dharma teach everything connected to everything else?
Yes, it is, which is precisely why you can’t isolate any one thing, any one condition, such as being gay or whatever, and say “ah! That’s the result of such and such karma”.

It isn’t the condition of the person which is karmic result, but rather, how the mind of the person experiences those conditions, because suffering or not suffering are not experienced anywhere outside of the mind of the one having the experience.

Thus, a person born into incredible wealth may never feel satisfied, may constantly strive for more wealth and power, never joyful, with nothing in life ever good enough, in effect living as a hungry ghost in this very lifetime, whereas a person born into relatively low income may still have a mind which is content, even joyous, regardless of what circumstances may come and go.

Of course, it is taught that a life of difficulties and a life of hardships are the result of karma. This is true in a general sense, in an interconnected sense. But you can’t say that any specific thing, being gay or straight for example, itself, is the result of positive or negative actions. One might be born gay, and might also be born in a land where gay people are discriminated against. Being born gay isn’t the result of negative karma. But being born in a land where one will be discriminated against (for whatever reason) is.
It’s very fine distinction, easy to miss.
。。。
Though karma is heavy, it ain’t anything in itself just that nobody wants to suffer and once get pulled into it becomes great suffering.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
tkp67
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by tkp67 »

Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:47 am
Caoimhghín wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 3:28 am
Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:28 am

In other words, when someone is faithful to his spouse or partner his sexuality is guaranteed to be straight.
That's the narrative, yes. It's designed to make people eager to be faithful unto their spouse, in a monogamous sense, lest they end up homosexual in the future.
That's interesting, isn't it? There are many using fear to keep people on track, not to mention false perception, understanding and damage they cause which are born together with it. It's not only Abrahamic religions who use fear to control people.
Several species have biological mechanism that bias sexual behaviors under population pressures. Female mice can excrete a hormone that reduces breeding in the subsequent generations.

It could have been that during period where mankind's populations levels are at risk that mankind adapts by either scaring deviation from normal breeding during dangerously low population numbers (relative to local environment) and that mankind adapts accordingly when population levels increase (relative to local environment). Mankind having the capacity to travel and trans locate across the globe and communicate in like kind might replicate same biological triggers. This does not speak to the changing environment and the influence on genetics and genetic expression.

Either way it seems that if one abstracts one's self from the nature of human sexuality over the existence of mankind that sexual preference is not absolutely static on a genetic level and various preferences are not simply wilful deviations from the norm.

I think some religion adherents are progressive enough to shape their practices accordingly.
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Tlalok
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Tlalok »

tkp67 wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 2:52 pm
Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:47 am
Caoimhghín wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 3:28 am
That's the narrative, yes. It's designed to make people eager to be faithful unto their spouse, in a monogamous sense, lest they end up homosexual in the future.
That's interesting, isn't it? There are many using fear to keep people on track, not to mention false perception, understanding and damage they cause which are born together with it. It's not only Abrahamic religions who use fear to control people.
Several species have biological mechanism that bias sexual behaviors under population pressures. Female mice can excrete a hormone that reduces breeding in the subsequent generations.

It could have been that during period where mankind's populations levels are at risk that mankind adapts by either scaring deviation from normal breeding during dangerously low population numbers (relative to local environment) and that mankind adapts accordingly when population levels increase (relative to local environment). Mankind having the capacity to travel and trans locate across the globe and communicate in like kind might replicate same biological triggers. This does not speak to the changing environment and the influence on genetics and genetic expression.

Either way it seems that if one abstracts one's self from the nature of human sexuality over the existence of mankind that sexual preference is not absolutely static on a genetic level and various preferences are not simply wilful deviations from the norm.

I think some religion adherents are progressive enough to shape their practices accordingly.
Also, humans are fundamentally social beings that have always existed in groups. If certain members of the groups don't compete for available different sex mates, the group itself may be more stable. Remember that it is genes, not individuals that replicate themselves, and having certain members not reproduce can actually aid the survival of their genes by e.g. dedicating more time to sustaining their families.
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Taikor.Taikun
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Taikor.Taikun »

According to some masters, these the result of habits from past lives. One must be resolve to let go of the past and embrace the present moment. Be here, right now
Varis
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Varis »

It's become a joke among people of my generation (I'm in my 20s) that many women my age are bisexual. While it's obviously not objective, the fact that the joke has caught on like wildfire suggests something I think.

Human sexuality is not fully understood, and I think homosexuality is underreported due to bisexuals or bi-leaning people who straight pass their whole lives. That will change I think, as younger generations are less afraid to live their lives as they want to.
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Caoimhghín »

Varis wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:03 pm It's become a joke among people of my generation (I'm in my 20s) that many women my age are bisexual. While it's obviously not objective, the fact that the joke has caught on like wildfire suggests something I think.

Human sexuality is not fully understood, and I think homosexuality is underreported due to bisexuals or bi-leaning people who straight pass their whole lives. That will change I think, as younger generations are less afraid to live their lives as they want to.
There's also bisexual people who just completely think they are straight (they've never questioned the way they look at the same-sex and pursuing the same-sex was never an option they even considered) and bisexual people who think they are gay for much the same reason IMO.

If you also like girls, then there is less reason for you to ever experiment with men. If you mostly like men, you are unlikely to experiment with girls. Bisexuality will be the last taboo after transsexuality, because it ruins many narratives of "people are only X way or Y way."

Also, it's tricky to be "functionally bisexual" in monogamous relationships, because presumably your spouse is only going to have one biological gender.
savi saghara aṇica di, savi saghara dukha di, savi dhama aṇatva di:
yada paśadi cakhkṣuma tada nivinadi dukha eṣo mago viśodhia.

"All formations are inconstant," he said.
"All formations are stressful," he said.
"All phenomena are selfless," he said.
When one sees this, one becomes adverse to stress, and this is the path of purity.

(Gāndhārī Dharmapada fragments)
Malcolm
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Malcolm »

Varis wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:03 pm It's become a joke among people of my generation (I'm in my 20s) that many women my age are bisexual. While it's obviously not objective, the fact that the joke has caught on like wildfire suggests something I think.
Then there is the LUG phenomena, i.e., lesbian until graduation.
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LastLegend
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by LastLegend »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:05 am
Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:22 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 7:02 pm ...the same karma that causes a person to be straight
Can you elaborate that?
What’s to elaborate?
It’s like asking what karma
makes a person left handed
rather than the opposite, right handed.
Every being trapped in samsara
is driven by the same passions.
The only difference is in the body part.
Why does one person like to read
and another person likes to hear music?
Eyes, ears, penises, vaginas
Desire doesn’t really care which door you use.
Somewhere it said perhaps A Chan master Linjii(?), if we attach to Buddha, Buddha becomes the herald of rebirth likewise with a particular sex gender.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
Tenma
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Tenma »

Tlalok wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 3:14 pm
tkp67 wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 2:52 pm
Norden wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:47 am

That's interesting, isn't it? There are many using fear to keep people on track, not to mention false perception, understanding and damage they cause which are born together with it. It's not only Abrahamic religions who use fear to control people.
Several species have biological mechanism that bias sexual behaviors under population pressures. Female mice can excrete a hormone that reduces breeding in the subsequent generations.

It could have been that during period where mankind's populations levels are at risk that mankind adapts by either scaring deviation from normal breeding during dangerously low population numbers (relative to local environment) and that mankind adapts accordingly when population levels increase (relative to local environment). Mankind having the capacity to travel and trans locate across the globe and communicate in like kind might replicate same biological triggers. This does not speak to the changing environment and the influence on genetics and genetic expression.

Either way it seems that if one abstracts one's self from the nature of human sexuality over the existence of mankind that sexual preference is not absolutely static on a genetic level and various preferences are not simply wilful deviations from the norm.

I think some religion adherents are progressive enough to shape their practices accordingly.
Also, humans are fundamentally social beings that have always existed in groups. If certain members of the groups don't compete for available different sex mates, the group itself may be more stable. Remember that it is genes, not individuals that replicate themselves, and having certain members not reproduce can actually aid the survival of their genes by e.g. dedicating more time to sustaining their families.
I am sorry but could you please cite your sources before trying to make biological assumptions? Seeing how this chat is going, I fear misinformation may spread amongst others with wrong assumptions, so please be accurate and grant your sources instead of making vague comments.
Caoimhghín wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 6:07 pm
If you also like girls, then there is less reason for you to ever experiment with men. If you mostly like men, you are unlikely to experiment with girls. Bisexuality will be the last taboo after transsexuality, because it ruins many narratives of "people are only X way or Y way."
I'm sorry, what?
Charlie123
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Charlie123 »

Malcolm wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 7:37 pm
Varis wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 5:03 pm It's become a joke among people of my generation (I'm in my 20s) that many women my age are bisexual. While it's obviously not objective, the fact that the joke has caught on like wildfire suggests something I think.
Then there is the LUG phenomena, i.e., lesbian until graduation.
More like BUG. *bisexual until graduation.
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Grigoris
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Grigoris »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 2:42 pmOf course, it is taught that a life of difficulties and a life of hardships are the result of karma. This is true in a general sense, in an interconnected sense. But you can’t say that any specific thing, being gay or straight for example, itself, is the result of positive or negative actions. One might be born gay, and might also be born in a land where gay people are discriminated against. Being born gay isn’t the result of negative karma. But being born in a land where one will be discriminated against (for whatever reason) is.
It’s very fine distinction, easy to miss.
。。。
Being an Incel though, that is definitely the result of bad karma.

Imagine that: Being a straight, white male in a First World country and still not being able to get laid.

If that is not a consequence of negative karma ripening, I don't know what is. :P
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Varis
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Varis »

Malcolm wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 7:37 pm Then there is the LUG phenomena, i.e., lesbian until graduation.
This is honestly the first time I've heard this phrase, I've heard the idea expressed before but not often.
Maybe this is a generational difference? :shrug:
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Grigoris
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Re: Karmic cause become gay

Post by Grigoris »

Maybe we should stop judging people for their sexual behaviour and just mind our own business?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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