Like a dream or a kind of dream?

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Does a waking state look like a dream or is it a kind of dream?

looks like a dream, but not a dream
3
14%
a kind of dream
8
36%
other
11
50%
 
Total votes: 22

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Minobu
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by Minobu »

it's a reference to Sunyata, the true nature of all phenomenon .
bxcf24
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by bxcf24 »

Neither, dream is a dream, awake is awake. If you die in your dream, you're not dead. If you die while awake, you're dead.
Viach
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by Viach »

bxcf24 wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:27 am Neither, dream is a dream, awake is awake. If you die in your dream, you're not dead. If you die while awake, you're dead.
If I die while awake, I'm dead in this kind of dream. And maybe I'll wake up in another kind of dream. And in this new dream, I will consider that my death was just a dream of death. :shrug:
TrimePema
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by TrimePema »

IMO it is pointing to the nature of reality being LIKE the nature of a dream. LIKE an illusion. LIKE a mirage. Etc. It is not that this either is or isnt this or that - it's more that the use of the systemic designation of fabrications proliferated by the deluded mind as various worldviews/understandings of reality are never the same as realizing the truth directly. A dream is real until you realize it's a dream, which cannot be simply understood but rather experienced by lucidity as mentioned above by someone else.
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Grigoris
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by Grigoris »

Viach wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:35 am
bxcf24 wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:27 am Neither, dream is a dream, awake is awake. If you die in your dream, you're not dead. If you die while awake, you're dead.
If I die while awake, I'm dead in this kind of dream. And maybe I'll wake up in another kind of dream. And in this new dream, I will consider that my death was just a dream of death. :shrug:
Chuang Tzu anybody?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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WesleyP
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by WesleyP »

Which is co-natural Ignorance of Men? . . .
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Truth is like an x-ray. When you can see it you can see through appearances and know how people actually are.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Simon E.
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by Simon E. »

ChNN said that all phenomena arise from and in a dream. And that nocturnal dreams and drugged states are dreams within dreams.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Tenma
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by Tenma »

So in other words, our entire circadian rhythm and experiences are all dreams alongside "everything?"
Viach
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by Viach »

Waking state, sleep with dreams, sleep without dreams, turiya. According to the logic of this list, waking state is the roughest kind of sleep.
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conebeckham
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Re: Like a dream or a kind of dream?

Post by conebeckham »

Every moment you are not resting in a personal knowledge or conviction of unconditioned awareness is actually a "dream" or illusion, a sort of delusion.

Tibetan traditions generally do differentiate between dreaming and "waking state," you know. We say there are three states or "bardos" related to life--waking state, dream/sleep, and the meditative state. There are three between death and rebirth, as well. So, from one point of view it's appropriate to say "like a dream," but there are differences between the dream in sleep and the waking life that are recognized by Vajrayana traditions.

But the main point is that our unique experience as mind or consciousness is unreal, empty, whether we are awake or asleep--unless we are abiding in mind's nature, aware of our primordial awareness. Those moments are the ultimate moments of "being awake." Buddhas are simply those who abide in that awareness without break. Easy, right? :rolling:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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