Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

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yan kong
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Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by yan kong »

So a little bit of context here. I'm a baker and I've taken to listening to the mantra of Green Tara at work. I work with a young lady whose rather sick of it (she has not expressed this sentiment to me). She does not work directly beside me and I never force anyone to listen to it if they don't wish to.

My question is should I stop listening to it at work if it is creating aversion to an aspect of the Dharma in someone?
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boda
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by boda »

Have you considered headphones? they make them very small these days, and even wireless.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by dzogchungpa »

Just out of curiosity, which recording of the mantra are you using?
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by Nebetmiw »

One once told me the Mantra should only be spoken with intention in private.
Listening in public place to me defeats the purpose.

But it might be grating on someone to hear over and over every day who is not into religious sounds.
You might ask your employee what they like and interchange it with their type of music too. As long as it is not offensive to all customers or you.
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yan kong
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by yan kong »

Boda, I'm pretty lucky to have control over my own music in my own space but headphones I think would be a step too far. I still need to communicate with coworkers and the like. But it's a worthy suggestion.

Dzochungpa, I am listening to something I found on YouTube. The mantra is recited by Su Ching-yen according to the description. I like it because it is generally repetitive without a lot of musical interference.

Nebetmiw, I am certainly trying to do this with intention and the music was to help me focus certainly in the earlier times when I started to recite. My coworker and I don't work side by side she only passes through my work space. As I said, I would never force my listening choices on someone who had to stand beside me for hours on end. I am simply trying to bring some of my practice into an otherwise mundane rather meaningless job.
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Vasana
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by Vasana »

I personally think this is inappropriate. Picture yourself in the situation with any other religion and invocation. Then picture yourself as someone who has the tendency of negatively lumping all religions together as 'bad' or 'nonsense' etc.

Perhaps just recite or sing it in your mind or keep a small image or pendant of Tara and/or her mantra if you want to feel it's presence in the day.

If your co-worker is sick of it, then she may also gather wrong views about mantra, the dharma, religious and spiritual efforts in general, which is counterproductive and contrary to what Tara is about.
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by Grigoris »

Personally, I would just do mantra repetitions silently in my head and discretely set up a picture of Tara over my workstation, in order to remind me to do the mantra repetitions. No use pissing off your work mates with your religious practice.

Oh, and just to be clear: I do not believe that you are the cause of aversion for your workmate, that comes from their own mind, but playing the mantra may act as a condition.
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cky
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by cky »

Depending on what recording it is, if you did this at my workplace, I could get quite annoyed with it. They used to play these honey-sweet weird (to my ears) mantra recordings with sing-sang style melodies in a Dharma center's kitchen when I had kitchen duty. I didn't say anything back then, out of respect of the mantra, but I certainly would say something today.
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by Grigoris »

One of my Greek Lama had a Guan Yin statue that flashed lights and played high pitched Chinese voice mantra when you hit a switch, I threatened to smash it into a million pieces if he kept turning it on when I was around. It reminded me a little too much of the Chinese pop music they would play on the overnight trains in China, starting at about 6.30am and stopping around 2am.
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by Mantrik »

I don't think this has anything to do with Dharma.
You're just making a noise others may not like. They may reciprocate ;)
The question is more, surely, about how you feel as a Dharma practitioner in doing so.
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by DGA »

cky wrote:Depending on what recording it is, if you did this at my workplace, I could get quite annoyed with it. They used to play these honey-sweet weird (to my ears) mantra recordings with sing-sang style melodies in a Dharma center's kitchen when I had kitchen duty. I didn't say anything back then, out of respect of the mantra, but I certainly would say something today.
That Chinatown audio production style is a migraine trigger. If I had to listen to that at my work, I'd call a lawyer right away.
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by DGA »

yan kong wrote:Boda, I'm pretty lucky to have control over my own music in my own space but headphones I think would be a step too far. I still need to communicate with coworkers and the like. But it's a worthy suggestion.

Dzochungpa, I am listening to something I found on YouTube. The mantra is recited by Su Ching-yen according to the description. I like it because it is generally repetitive without a lot of musical interference.

Nebetmiw, I am certainly trying to do this with intention and the music was to help me focus certainly in the earlier times when I started to recite. My coworker and I don't work side by side she only passes through my work space. As I said, I would never force my listening choices on someone who had to stand beside me for hours on end. I am simply trying to bring some of my practice into an otherwise mundane rather meaningless job.
Is this the audio in question?

phpBB [video]


That's unlistenable. If you are my supervisor, and you are forcing me (your employee) to endure that, then you are truly asking for problems.

If your bakery is in the United States, then it would be worthwhile to review what constitutes a hostile workplace according the US labor law.

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/harassment.cfm
Harassment is unwelcome conduct that is based on race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information.
Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality. To be unlawful, the conduct must create a work environment that would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive to reasonable people.

Offensive conduct may include, but is not limited to, offensive jokes, slurs, epithets or name calling, physical assaults or threats, intimidation, ridicule or mockery, insults or put-downs, offensive objects or pictures, and interference with work performance.
I would categorize that audio is highly annoying. Depending on other factors in your workplace, it could rise to the level of harassment.

Tread carefully.

(I am not a lawyer and this post does not constitute legal advice)
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yan kong
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by yan kong »

That's the audio yep. Though I'll note a couple things, firstly that it isn't my bakery, I am neither an owner nor a supervisor subjecting this poor helpless soul to horrific sounds that produce blood from the ears in those affected.

Secondly, I am not in the United States.

And thirdly, and I can not stress this enough as I have noted in on several occasions in this short thread, I would not subject someone to music they disliked if they had to be listening to it for hours on end beside me. She hears it for all of 10 seconds to a minute when passing through to go to the fridge or grab a container. I'll say again, and not for legal reasons, I would never force someone to listen to music religious or otherwise that they had a distaste for if they had to endure it for hours on end. Were I listening to Bob Dylan all day and she was fussy because she didn't like Tangled up in blue for the ten seconds she had to hear it then that would not change my mindset on my choice of music.

My original question, to be as transparent as possible, was as to whether I was doing harm to this young lady karmically/spiritually or helping her create unfortunate rebirths through an aversion to the Tara mantra. My question was not as to whether I should be concerned that she feels the need to make critical comments about my choice of audio, which she is must painfully endure for the period it takes to walk ten paces, regardless of the level of general annoyance.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by dzogchungpa »

Well, if it's any comfort, I find it quite listenable. :smile:

As far as whether you are harming her spiritually, I don't think so. The Tirthikas have this idea of dvesha yoga, i.e. the yoga of hatred. The classic example of a dvesha yogi is Shishupala, whose hatred for Krishna was so obsessive that he was always thinking about him, and who attained liberation as a result of his one-pointed "devotion" to God. I think something similar may be relevant here.
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by Tiago Simões »

yan kong wrote:...
You might mean well, but I think it's best if Mantras and other devotional chants and prayers were chanted on the right time and place, I don't think a workplace is the right time and place, at least to listen to them without earphones. But that's just my guess.
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by Ayu »

I use to have music and mantras in my head only. So nobody bothers. :smile:
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by DGA »

There's a Dharma discussion here, there's a workplace sanity discussion, and there is a debate to be had about what makes a piece of music annoying to a reasonable person. I'd like to bracket the annoyance question and the Dharma question and get back to the workplace question.

Generally, one person's religious and cultural values should not be made to impose on those of other people, especially not in the workplace, where goodwill among colleagues is paramount. The OP is concerned that he or she may be harming the colleague who finds (rightfully in my view) the Chinese Pop version of the Tara mantra irritating. Consider instead that by taking this action, the OP may be harming him or herself by giving colleagues a reason to be irritated by those actions, and to feel left out or marginalized. It's poor leadership.

Consider a different example.

Suppose you work in an office where there is significant religious diversity: practitioners of different faiths and paths, and some nonbelievers too. Everyone gets along well enough to work together. Then a new boss comes in and wants to share the Good News in a subtle way... by blasting this equally irritating content over the office PA for everyone to delight in

phpBB [video]


At least some of the Christians in the room would be embarrassed by this action (#NotAllEvangelicals); the Jews, Muslims, Bahais, Hindus, and SIkhs are chatting about it in languages that the boss doesn't understand, with beautiful smiles on their faces, biding their time and carefully documenting the situation; the Buddhist (me) is calling HR to report the problem and polishing his resume to get the hell out of there.

How does that end for our enthusiastic, well-meaning supervisor with a heart full of inspiration from the One True God and Savior? Not well, unfortunately.

I hope the OP's business thrives and prospers, and that a peaceful resolution prevails.
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by DGA »

Ayu wrote:I use to have music in my head only. So nobody bothers. :smile:
It's funny that you mention that. From the ages of maybe eight until 20, I had a song in my head (the "ear-worm" of Europe) all the time, even in my sleep. About the same time I began vipassana meditation, I noticed that I finally had real silence from time to time. Now it's mostly quiet, and when the ear-worm comes back, I know I need to be present. It's a bell to mindfulness.
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by Ayu »

DGA wrote:
Ayu wrote:I use to have music in my head only. So nobody bothers. :smile:
It's funny that you mention that. From the ages of maybe eight until 20, I had a song in my head (the "ear-worm" of Europe) all the time, even in my sleep. About the same time I began vipassana meditation, I noticed that I finally had real silence from time to time. Now it's mostly quiet, and when the ear-worm comes back, I know I need to be present. It's a bell to mindfulness.
As a musician, I have to stand earworms, because they are very sticky in times of rehearsing new songs. I learned to appreaciate them, because they help me very well to learn the songs by hard. :smile:

:focus:
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yan kong
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Re: Creating an aversion to the Dharma in someone

Post by yan kong »

Perhaps this has turned into a debate about work place etiquette but it's not the question I asked. I'm not trying to indoctrinate anyone and I am playing the mantra for the purpose of my personal practice not to benefit or harm my coworkers. The topic has turned into a debate on work place conduct. If that's the discussion you wish to have then have at it, I think I have enough food for thought on my question.

I thank you all for your input.
DGA wrote:There's a Dharma discussion here, there's a workplace sanity discussion, and there is a debate to be had about what makes a piece of music annoying to a reasonable person. I'd like to bracket the annoyance question and the Dharma question and get back to the workplace question.

Generally, one person's religious and cultural values should not be made to impose on those of other people, especially not in the workplace, where goodwill among colleagues is paramount. The OP is concerned that he or she may be harming the colleague who finds (rightfully in my view) the Chinese Pop version of the Tara mantra irritating. Consider instead that by taking this action, the OP may be harming him or herself by giving colleagues a reason to be irritated by those actions, and to feel left out or marginalized. It's poor leadership.

Consider a different example.

Suppose you work in an office where there is significant religious diversity: practitioners of different faiths and paths, and some nonbelievers too. Everyone gets along well enough to work together. Then a new boss comes in and wants to share the Good News in a subtle way... by blasting this equally irritating content over the office PA for everyone to delight in

phpBB [video]


At least some of the Christians in the room would be embarrassed by this action (#NotAllEvangelicals); the Jews, Muslims, Bahais, Hindus, and SIkhs are chatting about it in languages that the boss doesn't understand, with beautiful smiles on their faces, biding their time and carefully documenting the situation; the Buddhist (me) is calling HR to report the problem and polishing his resume to get the hell out of there.

How does that end for our enthusiastic, well-meaning supervisor with a heart full of inspiration from the One True God and Savior? Not well, unfortunately.

I hope the OP's business thrives and prospers, and that a peaceful resolution prevails.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun
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