words in Lotus sutra

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Riju
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words in Lotus sutra

Post by Riju »

There are a certain words in English translation of Lotus sutra by Burton Watson. Discussion on them will help me a lot.

1. Tranquil extinction.
2. Voice hearers and Buddhas both end their journey at Nirvan.
3 One vehicle , not two nor three.


There is a long list . The above three will do for now.
narhwal90
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Re: words in Lotus sutra

Post by narhwal90 »

Highlt recommended to contrast the Watson translation against the 10000 Buddhas version- indications are it is mpre accurate tham Watson or bdk.
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Astus
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Re: words in Lotus sutra

Post by Astus »

Riju wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:18 pm There are a certain words in English translation of Lotus sutra by Burton Watson. Discussion on them will help me a lot.

1. Tranquil extinction.
2. Voice hearers and Buddhas both end their journey at Nirvan.
3 One vehicle , not two nor three.
They look to me fine as translations. The second I could not find as a sentence.

tranquil extinction - 寂滅, another term for nirvana


Watson:
Or there are bodhisattvas
who expound the Law of tranquil extinction,
giving different types of instruction
to numberless living beings.

BTTS:
There are Bodhisattvas who
speak of still extinction’s Dharma
with various instructions teaching
living beings without number.

Bunno Kato:
Moreover, there are bodhisattvas
Who preach the Law of tranquillity,
Teaching in various ways
The numberless living beings.

BDK:
There are also bodhisattvas
Who are teaching innumerable sentient beings
The Dharma of tranquility
In various ways.

或有菩薩,說寂滅法,種種教詔,無數眾生。

Watson:
All phenomena from the very first
have of themselves constantly borne the marks of tranquil extinction.

BDK:
Every existing thing from the very beginning
Has always had the mark of quiescence.

諸法從本來,常自寂滅相。

Law of the one vehicle, there are not two, there are not three - 一乘法,無二亦無三, a basic theme of the Lotus Sutra

Watson:
In the Buddha lands of the ten directions
there is only the Law of the one vehicle,
there are not two, there are not three,
except when the Buddha preaches so as an expedient means,

BDK:
In the buddha worlds of the ten directions
There is only the Dharma of the single vehicle.
Apart from the skillful means of the buddhas,
There is neither a second nor a third [vehicle].

十方佛土中,唯有一乘法,無二亦無三。除佛方便說。
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Riju
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Re: words in Lotus sutra

Post by Riju »

What difference could it be in between voice hearers and Buddhas if both end their journey in Nirvan (tranquil extinction)?
Is it that the voice hearer is so deeply connected with Buddha that he can not go separate at any stage. The voice hearer's and Buddha both have to wait for each other to go to Nirvan?

Any opinion or guess
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Queequeg
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Re: words in Lotus sutra

Post by Queequeg »

Riju wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:26 pm What difference could it be in between voice hearers and Buddhas if both end their journey in Nirvan (tranquil extinction)?
Is it that the voice hearer is so deeply connected with Buddha that he can not go separate at any stage. The voice hearer's and Buddha both have to wait for each other to go to Nirvan?

Any opinion or guess
Voice hearers and pratyekabuddhas don't actually attain nirvana. They eventually go on to become bodhisattvas, per the Lotus.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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