Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
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Minobu
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Minobu »

vlyons wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:48 pm Dependent origination states that all phenomena arise dependent on previous causes and conditions. So belief in a creator god begs the question of who, or what, caused a creator god to come into existence?
and like i said before begs the question when and why did Samsara come to be...

i say it is due to desire ...it crept in when all was in it's original state...it's not like it was created but more of a realm of desire we got trapped in...
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Javierfv1212 »

Giovanni wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:00 pm Which brings us to another misconception about Buddhism..one that is common in India and among western followers of Indian gurus. That Gautama Siddhartha was actually an Avatar of Vishnu.
Hah! How could I forget this one! There's also the related "Buddha taught Vedism" or "Buddha was a Hindu". Its a big deal in India this one. Hindus generally love how an Indian is venerated around the world (imagine that!), but they don't like the Buddhadharma since it doesn't accept eternalism or a creator God. So they have to appropriate the Buddha somehow.
It is quite impossible to find the Buddha anywhere other than in one's own mind.
A person who is ignorant of this may seek externally,
but how is it possible to find oneself through seeking anywhere other than in oneself?
Someone who seeks their own nature externally is like a fool who, giving a performance in the middle of a crowd, forgets who he is and then seeks everywhere else to find himself.
— Padmasambhava

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Genjo Conan
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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SilenceMonkey wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:26 am
Genjo Conan wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:17 pm I could make a whole post about what non-Buddhists misunderstand about Zen. I could make another whole post about what non-Zen Buddhists misunderstand about Zen. I could make a third about what purported Zen practitioners misunderstand about Zen. And I'm sure someone could make a fourth about what I misunderstand about Zen.
That would be awesome. :namaste:
Well. OK. This might take a while, so I'm going to edit this post to add as I go. This is all from my experience.

Things non-Buddhists misunderstand about Zen

(1) Zen is just a bunch of chill bros being chill. "Zen" is by now entrenched in the modern lexicon as synonymous with a sort of imperturbable calm. We have Zen day spas, Zen productivity software, "Zen and the Art of" this and that (I'll make an allowance for Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, and I would make an allowance for Zen and the Art of Archery, except that Herrigel was a Nazi), and countless, countless Zen CBD products.

(2) Zen means saying and doing random shit, and the more random you are, the more Zen it is. As far as I can tell, this rests almost entirely on the two Hakuin koans that everyone knows (one hand clapping and the tree falling in the forest, although some people have also heard of the "show me your original face from before you were born" challenge). This also proliferates on the internet, with people who claim to be Zen practitioners engaging in penny ante Dharma combat (of which more later).
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Matt J
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Matt J »

Genjo Conan wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 pm (one hand clapping and the tree falling in the forest, although some people have also heard of the "show me your original face from before you were born" challenge).
I've only heard the "tree" as attributed to Bishop Berekely. What is Hakuin's koan on the tree?
"The world is made of stories, not atoms."
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Matt J wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:25 pm
Genjo Conan wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 pm (one hand clapping and the tree falling in the forest, although some people have also heard of the "show me your original face from before you were born" challenge).
I've only heard the "tree" as attributed to Bishop Berekely. What is Hakuin's koan on the tree?
Maybe another misconception about Buddhism is that “if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it does it make a sound?” comes from Zen Buddhism.

(BTW, no, the tree doesn’t make a sound).
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Tilopa
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Matt J wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:38 pm The purpose of meditation is to still the mind
If this is a misconception it's one I've held for a very long time. I get there's much more to meditation than just stilling the mind but as a foundation for developing almost every other aspect of the path IME it's been an essential requirement.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Genjo Conan »

Matt J wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:25 pm
Genjo Conan wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:42 pm (one hand clapping and the tree falling in the forest, although some people have also heard of the "show me your original face from before you were born" challenge).
I've only heard the "tree" as attributed to Bishop Berekely. What is Hakuin's koan on the tree?
It's definitely not Berkeley, but in doing a little research, it doesn't appear to have been Hakuin either--although I have long heard it attributed to him by Zen people (including Rinzai folks). So yes, this too could be one of the common misconceptions of Zen. I'll edit my post to reflect that.

--too late to edit the original post, so my error will have to stand.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Tilopa wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:24 pm
Matt J wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:38 pm The purpose of meditation is to still the mind
If this is a misconception it's one I've held for a very long time. I get there's much more to meditation than just stilling the mind but as a foundation for developing almost every other aspect of the path IME it's been an essential requirement.
It is shamatha meditation.
But the point isn’t to suppress thoughts.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Removed an inappropriate posts and responses.
madhusudan
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by madhusudan »

Dhukka is misunderstood, so non-Buddhists think they "disagree" with the First Noble Truth.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Minobu wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:54 pm but the gods and God the creator are two different things...

Lord Sakyamuni talks of the gods ..doesn't He?
Yep. They're all called devas, variously translated as "gods," "angels," "heavenly beings," etc... The creator god is known in India as Brahma, and is the biggest and most powerful of the devas. He occupies the highest heaven in the universe, known as "The peak of existence."
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:28 am
Minobu wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:54 pm but the gods and God the creator are two different things...

Lord Sakyamuni talks of the gods ..doesn't He?
Yep. They're all called devas, variously translated as "gods," "angels," "heavenly beings," etc... The creator god is known in India as Brahma, and is the biggest and most powerful of the devas. He occupies the highest heaven in the universe, known as "The peak of existence."

The problem with “creator” is that it is predicated on their being something created.

The problem buddhism has with the idea of some thing being created, is that in order to identify what it is you are referring to, it must somehow exist in a fixed or permanent state. For that to be the case, it must be completed or finished. It can’t still be taking shape.

Since nothing exists in a permanent or fixed state (the universe, for example, which is always, perpetually, becoming something new) no thing can be identified as fitting the Buddhist criteria for having been created.

Nothing created, hence, no creator.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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Misconceptions about Buddhism might include the idea that Buddhists worship Buddha.
But this largely depends on how one defines “worship”, which can refer to, you might say, one’s attitude or view, but can also refer to ritual activity.
Buddhists don’t regard the Buddha in the same sense that theists regard their gods, as objects of submission.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Kim O'Hara »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:52 am Misconceptions about Buddhism might include the idea that Buddhists worship Buddha.
But this largely depends on how one defines “worship”, which can refer to, you might say, one’s attitude or view, but can also refer to ritual activity.
Buddhists don’t regard the Buddha in the same sense that theists regard their gods, as objects of submission.
Indeed.

Related: Reuters called Kannon a 'goddess' - https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=36854

:coffee:
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Nicholas2727 »

madhusudan wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:56 pm Dhukka is misunderstood, so non-Buddhists think they "disagree" with the First Noble Truth.
I think this also could be because some people misunderstand or have been misinformed that the First Noble Truth says as "all of life is suffering." I have heard many people say this and I have even seen it in some books, which gives people the wrong idea of the First Noble Truth.


Also, thank you to everyone for the posts so far. Lots of common misconceptions that are important to clear up!
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Malcolm »

Nicholas2727 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:27 pm
madhusudan wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:56 pm Dhukka is misunderstood, so non-Buddhists think they "disagree" with the First Noble Truth.
I think this also could be because some people misunderstand or have been misinformed that the First Noble Truth says as "all of life is suffering." I have heard many people say this and I have even seen it in some books, which gives people the wrong idea of the First Noble Truth.
Sarvadukkhaṃ is pretty clear: all is suffering. Painful sensations are suffering, the suffering of suffering, the result of hatred; pleasurable feelings are suffering, the suffering of change, the result of desire; and neutral feelings are suffering, the suffering of the compounded, the result of ignorance.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:35 pm
Nicholas2727 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:27 pm
madhusudan wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:56 pm Dhukka is misunderstood, so non-Buddhists think they "disagree" with the First Noble Truth.
I think this also could be because some people misunderstand or have been misinformed that the First Noble Truth says as "all of life is suffering." I have heard many people say this and I have even seen it in some books, which gives people the wrong idea of the First Noble Truth.
Sarvadukkhaṃ is pretty clear: all is suffering. Painful sensations are suffering, the suffering of suffering, the result of hatred; pleasurable feelings are suffering, the suffering of change, the result of desire; and neutral feelings are suffering, the suffering of the compounded, the result of ignorance.
People think “all existence is suffering? I’m not suffering right now!” because they think suffering means physical or mental agony which fortunately most of us are not constantly experiencing.
But ‘Suffering’ in the Buddhist context refers to a general restlessness or dissatisfaction both mentally and physically. We get hungry. We get bored. But more specifically, we don’t want to be hungry. We don’t want to be bored. That desire to finally have complete peace of mind with nothing unresolved, that point never arrives (in samsaric existence). That’s dukkha. That’s what “all existence is marked by”.

Furthermore, the experiences themselves are not the source of happiness or satisfaction. As I have suggested before, grief is probably the most painful of human emotions. Yet it is triggered by the happiest of memories. The happier the memory of a loved one who has died, the more painful is the grief.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Giovanni »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:51 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:35 pm
Nicholas2727 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:27 pm

I think this also could be because some people misunderstand or have been misinformed that the First Noble Truth says as "all of life is suffering." I have heard many people say this and I have even seen it in some books, which gives people the wrong idea of the First Noble Truth.
Sarvadukkhaṃ is pretty clear: all is suffering. Painful sensations are suffering, the suffering of suffering, the result of hatred; pleasurable feelings are suffering, the suffering of change, the result of desire; and neutral feelings are suffering, the suffering of the compounded, the result of ignorance.
People think “all existence is suffering? I’m not suffering right now!” because they think suffering means physical or mental agony which fortunately most of us are not constantly experiencing.
But ‘Suffering’ in the Buddhist context refers to a general restlessness or dissatisfaction both mentally and physically. We get hungry. We get bored. But more specifically, we don’t want to be hungry. We don’t want to be bored. That desire to finally have complete peace of mind with nothing unresolved, that point never arrives (in samsaric existence). That’s dukkha. That’s what “all existence is marked by”.

Furthermore, the experiences themselves are not the source of happiness or satisfaction. As I have suggested before, grief is probably the most painful of human emotions. Yet it is triggered by the happiest of memories. The happier the memory of a loved one who has died, the more painful is the grief.
:good:

It’s also the case that as our mind becomes increasingly one pointed we become aware of layers of Dukkha below the conscious level which we might experience as tension or sadness even though on the surface all seems well. We have layer after layer of contraction.
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

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PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:24 pm However, when my spouse is upset, reminding her that she should at least enjoy the fact of being able to partake in that bountiful spectrum of human emotions…
doesn’t seem to make much of an impression.
If she manages to just shrug that comment off when upset, she may be well along the path! LOL
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Let's talk about common misconceptions of Buddhism

Post by Nicholas2727 »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:35 pm
Nicholas2727 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:27 pm
madhusudan wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:56 pm Dhukka is misunderstood, so non-Buddhists think they "disagree" with the First Noble Truth.
I think this also could be because some people misunderstand or have been misinformed that the First Noble Truth says as "all of life is suffering." I have heard many people say this and I have even seen it in some books, which gives people the wrong idea of the First Noble Truth.
Sarvadukkhaṃ is pretty clear: all is suffering. Painful sensations are suffering, the suffering of suffering, the result of hatred; pleasurable feelings are suffering, the suffering of change, the result of desire; and neutral feelings are suffering, the suffering of the compounded, the result of ignorance.
Maybe I have had a misunderstanding then. Before coming to Mahayana, I had numerous Theravada teachers correct anyone who said the first noble truth is "all of life is suffering." They would make the point that the first noble truth is simply Dukkha. I also remember reading one of Thich Nhat Hanh's books where he discussed if everything is suffering and quotes the Samyukta Agama saying the three Dharma seals are impermanence, nonself and nirvana. I am not knowledgeable enough to discuss specifics, but this is the message I have received from some teachers and from reading some books.

While saying that, I do understand your point. Even the "good" things in samsara ultimately are unsatisfactory. Maybe another misconception I have had for awhile that is now being cleared up :shrug:
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